Identity crisis

Pricing is important to the manufacture in that to be competitive they need to slot cars in to categories at prices that compete with other manufacturers offerings in that same category. The Camry is one of those vehicles, the Crown is slotted in a different category to compete in...it is a new category for Toyota North America, (Lexus has provided the vehicles in that category previously)

Yes I agree, the 4g tacoma is overpriced if it sits at the same price as half ton offerings, as the Tacoma is not in the same category. There are a lot of things that are similarly prices if you are shopping what is on the lot.

Some would consider that Altima when shopping the Camry, an educated buyer would probably not include the Altima or any of Nissans car offerings in those considerations. There are very few non luxury sedan offerings at this time, the Camry happens to be probably one of the best offerings if you are shopping for non luxury sedans. In the luxury mid size sedan category there are quite a few more offerings, to include the Crown.

 

So far, they've just done the brands.

 

I don't think Toyota's previous reputation is a fair representation of what to expect from the new truck. Not saying the truck isn't any good, there isn't much to base a reliability score on. 4G could end up being more reliable, or less reliable. The 2.4 is in Toyota's so the engine should be comparable to what's already out there from Toyota.

 

If dodge is at 190 and Chrysler is at 310 this study is not to be trusted. They are the same fucking brand/car

 

But that's all we have to work with. History.

 

Not necessarily: Chrysler models are supposed to be a step up from the Dodges, and with that sometimes comes a bunch of added features or electronics, which can affect the studied reliability.

Engine and transmission? Yeah probably the same. Head unit, BSM, dash cluster? Probably different.

I saw the same thing with Ford / Mercury, where the mid range Mercury's actually seemed crappier than the Ford's, because the quasi-luxury stuff was low quality. (Case study: two of my friends had a Taurus and Sable, respectively, and the Taurus was more robust).

 

Consumer Reports:

 

The Tacoma Scores 81...the Frontier Scores 83

 

They did individual as well as group rankings on trucks
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/2024/toyota/tacoma-2wd
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/rankings/best-trucks

 

They are the same. U connect … dashes are essentially the same throughout. Dodge/chrysler differentiation stopped around 2010.

 

Some of the new Dodge vehicles are Alfa Romeos' (Hornet)

 

True, but the new Tundra didn't and hasn't been as well recieved at CR. Considering the previous gen ranked well. I belive the people surveyed experienced what ever they experienced with their new vehicles, but that information does not provide much information for the buyer. Peggy Sue's 24 Grand Cherokee started every morning she tried starting the vehicle. Well it should, that don't mean it's reliable or will be that great a vehicle 2029.

 

I've been wanting a Mini Cooper JCW with a 6 speed for a while but afraid of the reliability. Clearly basing a purchase on this alone tells me I'm now safe.... right???

 

I like how Mini beat MBZ, Sprinters have to be better built vehicles than a Mini. I'm not knocking Mini, but everyone I knew eho ever had one ran it into the ground with in the warranty period. It was brought on by the driver, but had it been a Honda, Toyota, or Mazda it would have just been broken in. The driving dynamics of the Mini were pretty good.

 

Ask away … I had a 2016 for 5 years.

 

I think of this more of a long term reflection of corporate policies and institutional practices than a snapshot of any single vehicle of model year. Institutional behaviors are very slow to change at large companies. Generational time frames. New employees come in, they see how veteran employees act, conduct themselves, learn design principles, manufacturing processes, and then over time they become the veteran employees.

If the tenured middle management is trash, veteran employees adopt DGAF mindset, infect new employees with apathy, DGAF mindset, and the next generation of employees continues the bad practices they learned. Even changing leadership at the top does little because much of a company's ethos comes from division leadership. Then quality employees either avoid the company or leave the company, and you have incredible churn which rots your company from the inside out. The trash employee becomes the next middle manager and the cycle repeats. This is really hard to change.

Quality isn't an accident. It's not something that just happens on one vehicle. A history of building consistently quality products means the process is sound. The process can be used over and over to make new products that are also quality. Hence why year after year you see the same companies remain at the bottom or top. The one fluke is Honda. Not sure where they went wrong starting around 2012. Something happened to them over the years and it's disappointing.

If you like organizational mindset, read about W. Edwards Deming. He tried to get the Big 3 to actually give a shit about quality and they laughed him out of the USA. So Deming went to Japan, which was in a real dire situation following some really bad decisions their government made from about 1932-1945. The country was basically an open air overflow parking lot thanks to the US military. They had to rebuild from scratch. New mindset. New paradigm. They were ready to listen to someone. It worked.

Toyota's Management History - The W. Edwards Deming Institute

 

We have had several Mini's. CooperS conv, Cooper JCW Conv and Cooper JCW that was autocrossed and daily driven. Nothing ever other than oil changes. Mini's in about 03 (I think) era had plenty of issues and I think for those that have never owned one keep thinking of those cars. They are great. They are fun and with our 3 we have found them to be VERY reliable.

 

Oh tell me what you have? base, S, or JCW? Issues? any modifications causing issues?
I was eyeing one that didn't sell on carsandbids JCW but it ended up being a bit more than I wanted to spend for a 'fun' car. Finding JCW with 50-70k for $16,500- 23,000 for 17-19 MY.

 

JCW. One thing you really need to keep in mind. The parts are atrociously expensive (3-5k for a full brake job at the dealer). These things also burn through brakes every 7-15k miles. Doesn’t matter how you drive it.
They occasionally lose engine mounts before 50k miles, as they leak. Other than that they are pretty darn solid.

 

Assuming this website is accurate they bulk of Dodge sales are Charger/Challenger (ancient platform) and the Durango. And for Chrysler its pretty much the Pacifica. So its certainly possible to have different reliability ratings despite being in the same family.

https://www.best-selling-cars.com/u...a-car-sales-jeep-ram-dodge-chrysler-by-model/