The SAE J581 Aux High Beam Thread

Definitely not. The Gravity optics are extremely efficient and product almost no forward heat.

 

No, definitely not. Reflectors may arguably more efficient than TIRs, but the benefit of TIRs, especislly tinted ones, like DD's offerings, is that they will be heated by the wavelengths of light they are filtering out.

The Pro SS3/SS5's will definitely run hot enough to keep the lenses clear in all but the worst conditions, but another option might be to mount a single halogen driving lamp, and tint its lens to selective yellow using duplicolor metalcast anodize yellow. A single lamp, mounted lower than normal driving light height, and tinted selective yellow might be an effective choice, wired to a seperate circuit than your other drivong lights/high beams.

 

Thank you crash!

what beam pattern would you recommend for three ss3 pro in the fog location on each side?

there are some solid kits that plug right in there here

https://specialtyperformanceparts.c...o-triple-fog-light-kits-with-brackets-harness

 

I think Fog and Driving are the obvious choices, then for the 3rd lamp it really depends on what you want more of. I’d think it would be between spot or combo. Spot will give you better distance illumination but very focused, the combo will amplify your driving light pattern, but add flood with 1/2 a lamp so you get uplight/general illumination outside of the driving pattern area.

 

I'm not sure when this was added, but diode dynamics now lists a "Max Driving" light optic in the darker amber color, same as the fog. Very cool to see.

Edit- not just for use with the Max pods, these *should* filter enough additional green wavelength to result in a closer-to-selective-yellow color for anyone who originally purchased a pod with a clear lens paired with the 6000k-ish LEDs.

 

Anyone have or know of a source of the bulb holder spring clips with the ground lug for h3 bulbs that come with the Hella 500 and 700 lights? One of mine failed and the bulb is no longer able to be secured.

 

PM me your address and I'll send you one.

 

Sent, thank you!

 

So, this is outside the scope of street legal auxiliary lighting, but there's some discussion of laser based/laser boosted vehicle lighting on candlepowerforums automotive lighting subforum.

BMW introduced the idea of a laser boosted high beam somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 years ago. It was to boost a narrow region within the centerr of the highbeam region to maximize distance illumination without having to resort to mounting additional driving lamps.

It's now available on some models. I don't believe this would be activated on any US domestic models, as it would make the highbeam significantly higher maximum intensity allowed under SAE regulations. I'm not sure if this option is regulated (allowable) under ECE R112 regs (their equivalent to SAE J581) but I would assume so if they have been able to bring it to market.

Here is a video from youtube, with a teardown of a bmw headlamp equipped with the high beam laser boost module.

https://youtu.be/7fRjMHtnShs

In the past few years I have seen several "laser boosted" led retrofit projectors available on chinese retailer sites. Their performance is very suspect, as the ones that appear to use an actual laser diode seem to be quite capable ofnsimply burning whatever region of the highbeam LED chip the diodenis aimed at. In the vid above you can see the apparent early signs of the phosphor being burned around the 3 minute mark with the retrofit projector. Not a good sign for something with less than a few hours of use on it.

The bmw headlamp uses a completely seperate laser unit and optic assembly than the highbeam modules, likely due to the accelerated damage to the LEDs that would occur.

There's several aftermarket laser based modules available for forward lighting. Both Baja Designs and Rigid Industries have been offering some laser based lamps/lightbars for a few years. Rigid now has a three emitter lamp

https://www.rigidindustries.com/shop-products/series/laser-edition.html

Which they claim produces 1 million candela in an extremely tight spot.

I assume they are using the same laser modules that rigid is using, what appears to be a kyocera module

https://www.mouser.com/new/kyocera-avx/kyocera-sld-laserlight-smds/

Which I just learned, from searching around, is available. These are extremely intense point source emitters, claiming >1,000cd intensity which is significantly higher than even the highest intensity automotive LED emitters from osram, such as the HXB boost LED (a larger format white flat 2mm^2 chip) which tops out in intensity around the low 200's candela intensity.

The rigid lamps using a laser chip (again, I'm assuming its these kyocera emitters) appear to have a diffuser directly over the emitters, in what appesrs to be a TIR type optic. The rigid lamps simply use an open reflector.

These would be way too high intensity lamps to be sold for on road use, however I think this was the best thread to bring them up for discussion.

Given that these kyocera emitters are not a direct laser diode, I'm very tempted to pick up a few, and a tabletop power supply to see how they work with diode dynamics driving light TIRs, especially now that they're offering them in the darker amber tint necessary to filter a high color tempersture white light source to selective yellow. It appears they would be capable of blowing the Max pod with driving light right out of the water in terms of maximum intensity (but likely with an even smaller beam pattern, as the emitting source is so minute).

Anyway, some interesting advancements in lighting tech.

 

The Kyocera unit is called reflective phosphor package. Phosphor layer is directly on the package body, which helps thermal dissipation of phosphor, this increases phosphor conversion efficiency. Conversion happen when laser hit the phosphor surface. The emission point is as small as direct laser immediate near target size, allowing for very high lumen density. The emission characteristics are similar to LED, with a Lambertian emission pattern but just with very high density. The optics used can be the same type as those used for LED optics. On the other hand, the Giga white unit, like the Nichia one, is a translucent phosphor package that converts spread laser beams at a distance collimator lens input surface, conversion happen when laser pass through phosphor layer. Unlike Kyocera one, this type allow slightly more space between laser emitter to phosphor layer distance, the optical energy density is lower and less work is needed for phosphor cooling. However, the virtual light source size is much bigger than the reflective type. The available white converted output is similar to a narrow HWHM Gaussian spread. Both technologies have critical challenges. The smaller the emission surface, the higher the precision requirement. Reflective phosphor types require extreme precision control. To take full advantage of such a high-density light source, standard soldering tolerance is out of question. It already can be more than enough to disrupt beam control. It is very unforgiving. Deep struggle is Typical package emission position itself has all XYZ direction tolerance, as much as +/-0.2mm for XY and +/-0.1mm for Z. When the emission area size is also tiny at 0.45mm x 0.55mm, within package level tolerance is already nearly half of the emission area size. Tolerance stack occurs at the package to PCB, PCB to heatsink, and package to optics level. For example, the Kyocera light source is about 1000lm 20W, not an efficient white lumen light source. The only benefit is the extreme potential to create a tight beam, but it comes with the very high price of extreme tolerance work. The larger the optics, of course, it helps absorb tolerance, but then some high lumen density LED can do a more ample job with less headache. If the application is very small and willing to spend a lot on research and development for extreme precision manufacturing, then a laser like Kyocera can help achieve an incredibly tight output. However, what high beam scenario benefits from such a super tight beam? Lighting is about balance between other illuminators, how they complement each other. Such a super tight beam is ideal for unrealistically flat long-range straight roads. It is only good for a hyper-tight spot beam. It is advanced technologies, but it is very limited and hard to make sense of in general automotive lighting in my opinion.

 

I can understand the use case for a boosted highbeam mode in germany, where they have the autobahn with some high speed stretches still available. Here in the US, the highest speed limits I've seen in 80mph, common in texas, the midwest and montana. While I would never admit to speeding, 90+mph is typical "speed of traffic" along some of these interstate routes.

I don't know about 1million candela of extra spot intensity, but I have certainly driven stretches where 75kcd (per lamp) of driving light is insufficient for highways speeds. I see this as also their way of meeting some customers needs without having to alter the appearance of the vehicle with externally mounted driving lights. While I am of the opinion that my buddies 440 m spec car would look significantly better with a set of cibie super oscars mounted on a bash bar (most cars do, imo), he is of the opinion that I'm an idiot with no taste. But then he still complains about the high beams lol.

Thank you for the input about the tight tolerances needed to get effective performance from these emitters. It's not very surprising given the size of the illuminated die.

I could see these being brought to market in extremely small form factor lamps, with suitably small optics to handicap the performance to within legal limits, but allow for a very small, easy to mount lamp on cars with limited grille space or bumper openings. Very pricey, but still very capable. While my friend doesn't want to mount a set of cibie super oscars, I could see him laying out the cash for a lamp that can effectively be mounted in a grille opening that still offered significant performance.

 

If I were to make laser hyper spot beam, I would use reflector. TIR can be too sensitive ( because center aspheric section is short focus distance optics, make tolerance sensitivity even worse). For DIYer, TIR is easier, because optics are more available. Wont have much control what kind of focus beam shape it creates, pretty lame Abbe number of PC material( Most of TIR optics material) is limitation of using universal TIR optics.

 

Abbe number? Had to google that one, almost thought it was a typo.

I need to look and see if I can find a cheap enough benchtop power supply that would work, and then see if mouser will actually list them for sale.

I'd probably just see how one of diode dymamics SS1 optics works when held over the emitter at first for bench testing. I'd expect it to project a smaller beam pattern than the sport lamps using the lumiled's chip, if it can focus alright. The emitting surface is even smaller than the 1mm^2 of the osram white flat1/cree xp-p/cree xp-e, so the projected image should also be significantly smaller, just significantly higher intensity. I don't have any other open reflectors other than a 20mm 10* carclo spot optic handy. My flashlight modding days were long ago before you could buy high output lights at wallyworld.

 

here, some estimation with similar sized TIR optics pairing with Kyocera 1000lm model. This is purely based on if you can solidly align optical focus in ideal condition without any thermal loss.
Left bottom, that's 1 Banger Spot beam in same gird scale size comparison. Very small soft edge rectangular hyper spot is expected



10 lux range about 280m (pair) at straight aim. This beam is still very tight
This size only allow to cover very small area of far distance zone.


Above is based on if you make your own optimized heatsink for max 2.5A drive.

Now,
Considering DIY level limitation, I think you are trying to fit in gutted SSC1? I made mock up simulation for you! Not sure what kind of heatsink adoption you can make, but based on SSC1 thermal capacity, you should limit drive rate 1.5A~1.8A ish. So I predict something like 150KCd~200KCd ish tiny spot beam by pairing with SSC1 like sized TIR collimator at operating temperature. At operating temp, 10 lux range shall be around 160m or so I believe.

Good news is, Kyocera laser is well designed to use in place of SMD LED!
Oslon Boost HX Solder pad to emission point height is approx 0.73mm vs Kyocera 1000lm model is 0.93mm
In theory, if you pair Kyocera with PCB that is 0.2m thinner than what SSC1 uses, you should be able to near match Z axis position

And I think,, opening for TIR center aspheric lens section diameter is large enough to take Kyocera, but take measurement first! Kyocera 1000 diagonal package dimension is 9.9mm

If you need to layout driver lotic on PCB, I don't know what kind of heat generation and space, but try with external driver first to see if you find any use by fitting it in.

Good luck!

BTW,
I think DD tried to make Laser SS3, but used LED emitters and laser emitters in mix, so it won't shoot acutely small beam only.

 

That iso plot is taking me back to the days of hot rodding mag lites with aspherics and de-domed cree xr-e's, lol. "Look, I can light up half a water tower at 2 kilometers!"

Not reusing an SS1 pod, just the optic for testing.

I have an... eclectic collection of random one off things I've bought, played around with and ultimately been unable to diy into an effective -whatever-. It's been a while since I've done any modding, but I do have a fairly decent mini lathe that I have the swing to mill a housing for a one off lamp. Would be a fun project. Need to get my other tacoma back on the road first though, first.

Mouser lists these, but does not have them for sale. Digikey says they have 5 in stock, but I need to take a look at their data sheet for the bin they have before committing.

 

I have a 2nd Gen 2014 with upgraded headlight harness and am running the Osrams, it’s a massive improvement over stock. But I need better.

I commute over high CO mountain passes in the dark. I need better visibility for winter storms with blowing snow, animal avoidance, etc. I recently added a hybrid front bumper which provides ample mounting options.

What SAE compliant aux high-beam and fog set up would you suggest?

Thanks for everyone’s contributions to these threads, it’s really helpful for folks like me who regularly drive in conditions where light performance may literally save your life.

 

Welcome to TW

 

Welcome!

For fogs, assuming you want a 3x3" cube form factor, I'd recommend the Diode Dynamics selective yellow SS3 Pro or Max lights, as tested in the SAE Fog thread. If you have room for something bigger, the Hella 500 fogs perform well also. All of these lights run hot enough to melt snow.

For driving lights, I'd recommend a high performing halogen light with the 100W Osram super bright bulbs recommended in this thread. KC Daylighters, Hella 500FFs and Hella 700FFs would all fit the bill. I like the wider beam pattern of the KCs, but that's personal preference.

 

I'm already running the 100W Osrams. I like the Diode Dynamics products. Thinking the SS3 Max SAE Fogs, selective yellow mounted down low, and the Stage Series 30" Light Bar, White, Driving Lenses, mounted mid grill and linked to high-beams might do the job. Only one way to find out I guess.

 

SS3 max fogs in selective yellow (not white) will be a big improvement for the blowing snow conditions you describe. An LED white (6000k) driving light bar will be completely worthless and worse than nothing at all. You’ll get massive backscatter from the snow. High beam patterns like driving will do poor in snow in general. Also if the lamp doesn’t run hot enough it may become snow packed and totally worthless anyway. So for snow you’ll want halogen driving lamps for heat, possibly with some yellow correction, or some very hot running LED driving lamps in selective yellow. Generally speaking though, low beams plus fogs is the best you’re going to do in snow conditions. You shouldn’t be out driving your low beams in snowy conditions, and if you need to use fogs you should be driving even slower. I’d start by adding the DD SS3 Max selective yellow fogs and see what you think. A driving light bar can extend visibility, but is only effective in decent weather.