5Lug coilovers

you really think this is my first rodeo??
I’m not going to argue with you because it’s obvious you are under the impression stiffer is better.
Plus I see you don’t know about shocks. Please show me where I mounted my shocks upside down on my 2015 Access Cab with a Magnuson supercharger. My 2015 Access Cab in the top picture below, I have owned more than one Taco…
Do you know that Toyota did track work testing to come up with springs & shocks specifically for the X?
So have you cornered balance your X with adjustable end links yet?
Oh, the photo below is my Regular Cab with a X rear sway mounted in poly bushings & TrueTrec. It still understeers with the stock front springs and 4x4 leafs.
You need to research under & over steer and what causes it! After you explain what causes each here we can discuss spring rates.
Oh, please let me know when you get your traction bars mounted we can see how your supercharged 1GR-FE does against my L33. We can do both Solo and 1/4 if you like?

Hayrider

 

Edited....

Wasn't trying to argue, was expressing my difference of opinion. I'm more than happy to admit my mistake with a good explanation, I certainly don't know it all.

As for the upside down shock? There is a pick of that in your post.



Does it matter that it's upside down or right side (coil up vs coil down)? I dunno, that's why I was curious.

How about you explain to me why stiffer is not better in this case so I actually understand. I don't claim to know suspension stuff, I based my response on my personal experience. You obviously have more experience in this case, so why don't you share?

I'm sure your LS swap will tear up my 1gr setup. I haven't done anything with the motor or supercharger and don't plan to. I'll be doing a motor swap myself sometime next year, just not to a LS.

 

So did you research over & understeer and what causes it / them?

The best handling vehicle is one that is neutral. That means the vehicle should understeer when going into a corner under braking / slowing and oversteer under acceleration.

Now let me guess your X understeers like crazy! (You turn the steering wheel and the truck wants to go straight / not turn / front tires slide = understeer. Why? To much front spring / stiffness!! So you have way too much front SPRING RATE‼️
You can find out how bad your X handles by making or marking a 200 foot circle. Now start to accelerate slowly as you keep the 200 foot circle between the tires. Now keep going faster until the front tires slide or the rear tires slide out. I bet you any amount of money your front tires will slide out first!

Have you heard the term UNSPRUNG weight? Research it!

One more thing I used to setup suspension for Mazda’s for a side job and I have a $1000 spring compressor collecting dust mounted on the wall in our garage! I sold this below to cover the LS swap.

 

It seems that the ride is being more compliant with the rears having a higher compression over rebound. I will install the 450 lb springs once I get my djm upper and lower control arms and probably remove the traction bar. Currently at 5c and 2r for the rear and seems to be doing better.

@hayrider2.0
What kind of big brake kit do you currently run on your truck?

 

Smart move for the 450 lbs springs. But if you don’t like I have a set of 500# springs. But first give them a week or so plus it’s easy to stiffen up the shocks! I had 525# springs on the photo with the “Upside Down” shocks and they were too stiff for my 15 Access Cab with a supercharger and a 200# metal toolbox setting in the bed. I use the toolbox for carrying my MTB’s. And I needed the strong / heaviest (RKI) toolbox because at 75mph the bikes would severely buffet in the wind. I had an aluminum box but I was scared to carry an expensive bike mounted to it. I was going to change to the 450# springs but some guy insisted I sell him my 15 truck!

As for the brakes I contacted Tom to ask him for his best price for this kit below with plain two piece rotors (non drilled or slotted rotors) with the softer street brake pads. Plus Black Friday is almost here so he may be willing to give more off than the advertised price. Just be nice and professional when you ask him. He will respond nicely.

I’ve purchased 4 sets after installing them on our 2013 & 15 Access Cab and 05 & 07 Regular Cabs.

I purchased the brakes for Emergency Stops‼️ And after you cry once you will be very happy as they are one of the best mods I have ever done to Any of my vehicles.
Now if you are going to road race then you should go with slotted rotors and an aggressive pads and maybe the 6 piston brakes with even larger rotors. But aggressive pads will be very noisy until they get hot. Plus they will eat rotors. Walk up to a Mercedes, Porsche or BMW and look at the rotors. They can and or will most likely have deep groves into the rotors. They use an aggressive pads from the factory.

Also the pedal feels actually better. Why

https://sosperformance.com/products/tr360-6-6-piston-front-big-brake-kit-stoptech-fits-xrunnner

 

I haven't even had the Vikings on the truck for a week yet, so no, none of the driving I have done so far has caused understeer. Nor oversteer. Yes, I know what unsprung weight is.

So, from your other posts, I see you have run both 10" and 12" springs. When I was doing the install on the fronts, I felt the 10" springs were too short and I have virtually no preload on them. Does the length make any difference?

Coils are 2.5", correct? What spring rate do you suggest I start at for the X? 500#, 550#? Stick with 10" or move to a 12" length?

 

I have the XAT big brake kit on mine. It uses 07-2020 Lexus LS calipers and 360mm Lexus IS-F rotors. Not too keen on the drilled rotors it came with but I'll run them for now and get plain replacements down the road. I also have the SOS rear disc conversion kit that still needs installed.

Do the StopTech calipers have 4 or 6 pistons? Dunno which kit is better, I just liked that the brakes essentially stay OEM Toyota/Lexus the way I did it.

 

Yeah the 10" springs seems too short and I feel like I get some amount of play. Hopefully the 12" springs that I got from hayrider help out.

 

I have the same setup on brakes but I feel either a caliper is not 100% due to warping rotors and don't like the fact the tundra are heavy ass sh**. I'm looking to upgrade this system with stop tech 6 pistons and tundra brake booster like some taco folks here have done.

 

Yeah, it sounds like they should. I hadn't thought about doing just the UCA as well. Guess I need to get those for my truck since the Vikings dropped it an inch from stock.

 

Yeah, I was shooting for the 2 inch drop but the camber is out of wack

 

So you're running the XAT caliper bracket but with the Tundra calipers? Maybe before dropping the coin on the StopTech kit, get a set of the Lexus calipers like I have and plain rotors and see if that helps. Did you do your brake lines too?

 

I have an old bracket from some vendor over at xrunner underground. They are 2010 tundra calipers with 2010 isf rotors. Brake lines were also upgraded to ss lines. I want to dedicate this truck more to my project once I settle into my new home and have a daily.

 

Yes 2.5” springs are a standard size coil over spring. I run a front shock that calls for either a 10” or 12” spring so I thought I would try a 10” 525# https://www.hypercoils.com as rumor has it that Hyperco & Swift springs are the best quality springs.

But as far as I’m concerned is I love using the stock springs with the mount / spring perch from SOS / Tundra Racing. (See photo) The mount coil binds about 1/2 of a coil therefore increases the OE spring rate just a bit. A shorter spring is a stiffer spring. The percentage? I do not know but my butt Dyno likes and I wish I could test the rate increase. I’m sure there’s an engineer here somewhere who could figure it out. Know there’s a difference between the regular cab, access cab and X springs. You can see the difference and definitely feel the difference.

As for spring rates there’s a few ways to find out. Get a corner weight of the truck and someone who knows suspension geometry to figure it out. It’s all about where the pivot points are and how & where the spring is located on the LCA or is it a Fox Body Mustang where the struts are attached to the hub. The Fox Body uses a lot lighter springs because where the lower shock / strut is located. Just think of a teeter totter, if you move off center then the weight changes. Yes that’s a crude analogy but it’s the only way I can think to explain.

Or another way is if you have a spring that’s blank inches long unloaded a coil spring should compress 25 to 30% of it’s uncompressed length.

Don’t feel bad almost everyone who wants better handling thinks a little stiffer is better so a lot must be better yet! You want the body to not flop around but it’s a street vehicle and let’s face it road surfaces are not smooth like a race track.

When I first purchased my first Miata I jumped in with both feet! Driving into work on a Monday after spending a weekend installing “racing suspension” there was a section of unbridged road about 300 yards across that was nothing but pot hole filled road. I think the hole road was nothing but filled potholes! It was a beautiful cool morning with the top down and not a care, I hit the pothole section doing about 50 mph and the next thing I know it’s all I can do to keep the car pointing straight. Took another way home and removed the massive sway-bars that night. I had the suspension so stiff that I actually hated the car.

Edit, I forgot the photo of the OE coil-over.

 

Guys I’m absolutely not a suspension expert!
It’s just Trial and Error, mostly Errors and at 65 I’ve made a lot of errors‼️ Also with a lot of research, reading and picking people in the know heads. But I know for a fact that a 650 in-lb (short for inch-pounds) non progressive spring is going to be too stiff for a 5 lug or X.
For example if you look at a Trophy Truck with it’s insane amount of suspension travel you can see that the coil over shocks will have two and sometimes three different springs on the same shock. They are making a progressive spring rate. A beehive shaped spring will have a progressive rate and a spring that has its coils get closer together is a progressive spring rate. Leaf springs the longer springs are the softer springs and the shorter a spring is the stronger / stiffer the spring. I’m trying to explain what little I know.

 

I'll be ordering up some Hyperco 12" 525# springs to try out and the DJM UCAs. Install, test and carry on from there.

 

Now this is my opinion, “I” would rather get 500# 12” springs! I have a set of Viking’s I make you a deal on!
But I’m guessing the HyperCoil is a better spring. The Swift is supposed to be the best per the rumors. Again the 525# in my supercharged Access Cab with a heavy steel tool box were to stiff.

 

I guess I missed you saying the 525# was still too stiff previously. I'll go for the 500# instead. Not ordering until next week or after Thanksgiving anyhow.

You have the 12" 500# on you now? I think you are somewhere in Phoenix area? I'm near Marana/Tucson. Possible to meet up sometime maybe.

I've also heard Swift are supposed to be better. Price wise, I think the Swift are slightly cheaper than Hyperco when I was looking the other day.

 

I’m in Mesa.
I’m running the coilover in post #234 above.
And Yes I have a new set of 2.5” x 12” 500# Vikings and new 2.5” x 12” 550# Hyperco springs.
Between Hyperco and Swift springs, which one is better? I couldn’t tell you it’s just what I read.

 

I've read this thread over a few times trying to see if I can piece this together for my X-Runner. If I just decided to go back to a lower spring like the picture of my old sittin sic spring, what is a good replacement?