Trailhunter Riding Rough

I've got just over 1k miles on my 5' TH- still running the stock tires. It's smooth and amazingly comfortable on every road surface I've come across. Coming from an '02 F350 4x4 CCLB, it's really re-defined my expectations of what a truck can drive like. Definitely something ain't right.

 

Yeah. This is what everyone tells me. And it’s what keeps me coming back to the forums to try to get answers. A bit of a bummer that I just don’t understand what’s happening.

Like I said I have driven 2 third gens with all terrain tires and also a 25 TH and all drive much better than mine.

 

Ride quality is subjective, but I personally notice more surface irregularities through seat of the pants versus the old setup. Because the structure is stiffer than the prior trucks, I just assumed that real-world tuning was still a work in progress for Toyota.

 

E rated tires are technically OK on a 3500 HD truck with a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,000 pounds and above.

Why the hell do people put them on a medium sized truck meant for light duty is anyone’s guess.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sedExcaUrJY

Above he reminds us the OME branded, Bilstein built rear shocks have internal valve bump stops.

Upon your return to stock wheels and tires and your problem persists, maybe look in that direction.

 

Some people crawl rocks with tires at like 10 psi. They want the stiff sidewalls. I’ve never done that, but I think it’s the reason.

That and preventing punctures from sharp rocks.

 

Absolutely. It’s a trade off. Also for 18” wheels there are so, so few load rating options over 32”-33”.

 

This. I didn't realize it at the time how limited the 18" options were at first and a big reason the stock tires are still on my TH.

 

I cant follow this, I got your pm TR

Did you swap your E's for SL, or not????

My guess is you didnt, cuz of your wheel size....

 

yeah I swapped to SLs and I suspect the ride very firm compared to most SLs but I could be entirely wrong - so getting opinions from other folks with the same exact tires (like you) as a troubleshooting measure

 

Then you’re going to have to accept that your on road ride quality and day to day livability is going to suck because your tires are stiff af.

 

So you say it's a rough ride.

So try to explain what the truck / suspension is doing? How loaded down is the vehicle?

Basically, is the initial hit being transferred to the chassis?
Does the truck feel like it is settling down quickly or does the suspension feel like a yo-yo/making it worse?
Are the tires loosing contact with the ground when there is a drop, floating over the top or dropping into every little crevice?
What are you comparing the ride to/your expectations?

edit: is the problem mostly front or rear?
edit 2: is the ride equally as bad with the previous E vs. the new SLs. What about the original tires?

 

Great questions. Let me try to answer.

1. Not loaded down much - excluding me, maybe 200-300 pounds between bed cover and random stuff in the bed.

2. Initial hit definitely seems to come into the chassis — it’s somewhat jarring. On regular roads I can deal with it. On rough country roads it’s very much a vibration mess where the dash is rattling and shaking to death.

3. On the road, bumps are managed quickly but very firmly. So, no, there is almost no lingering body movement or body roll. No yo-yo at all. Very much like a tight, rougher riding sports car.

4. Over drops it seems like tires drop down and kind of bang into the ground causing you to feel the drop - like it feels like hard impact that you kind of feel in your back

5. My frame of reference is a 2022 TRD PRO for the most part. It was very firm but the truck rolled with the impacts and it was a soft firmness if that makes any sense—versus a harder, vibration-inducing harshness. I could drive it at any speed on any surface. I’ve also driven a TRD OR for over 1,000 miles and it was not nearly as nice as the PRO but totally fine.
The TH kind of just feels tuned too tight. Oddly, though, when I push down on the rear bumper it floats. It doesn’t at all seem like it’s too tight. And if I open a front door and stand in the truck and jump up and down, it’s firm but feels like what you’d expect — like my old truck. It moves firmly but smoothly. Expectations

Expectation is firmer than the trd pro but that I can go maybe 30mph on a rough country road and my dash board isn’t going nuts.

6. Seems like it’s more the front.

I’ll run through some checks but at some point will just accept it.

happy to take a video this weekend

 

With the caveat that this is uninformed opinion- I'm no Toyota tech or anything like that. But I've road raced motorcycles for 10 years and have learned a lot about tuning suspension, tire pressures, etc...

Sounds more compression than rebound then. At the extreme, it could be binding (either physical or hydraulic). Honestly, no experience with "country roads" in my TH so can't really compare what you're feeling to "normal" but there is nothing for me to "deal with" on regular roads. Honestly, my TH drives more like a car than a truck. Worth checking your tire pressures and make sure they're not over inflated- that can help, but I doubt will fix this. But from the sounds of it, the severity of the issue based on what I feel, tells me this is suspension and not tires.

That said, the AT4W SL's are 11lbs (25%) heavier than the OEM tires (50 vs 39lbs). That's significant unsprung mass and I would expect a rougher ride with harder impacts... Is that enough to explain what you feel? I can't say. Definitely reading the reviews for the AT4W's on tirerack, your complaint seems abnormal and the fact your reference is a similar mid-sized truck (and not say a Lexus) would suggest it's more than the tires. Things "rattling and shacking to death" generally isn't something that is fixed by tires unless they're defective.

The fact a sales person from Toyota agrees this is abnormal suggests it's worth having the dealer tech take a look.

 

All valid points. I dropped the wheel weight to wean out the unsprung mass - 22.2 pounds per wheel - so I’m only 2 pounds over stock per corner combined. Def better than my Es on stock wheels but just still rough. Taking back to dealer tomorrow to check it again.

my guess is the truck is sprung up tight from the factory and probably cannot be fixed or maybe it supposed to be like this on rougher roads.

I’ll do a video

 

I'd add, one thing to try is adding additional weight. I've heard mixed reviews on how heavily sprung the truck is (it's supposed to be setup to carry heavier loads), but the valving on the shocks are supposed to also be progressive as well. Adding weight to get the shock closer to mid-stroke might help.

 

I’ve thought a lot about this. How much weight?

 

For things like this... I always go for a "big change". It might go the wrong direction, but at least you'll know if it did something. Get 3 friends and put some sandbags in the bed if you gotta. FWIW, I know of one youtuber who does overland and ended up adding airbags because he was loosing too much travel in the back once he got all his gear and RTT on the truck. If you're going too fast, more likely to bottom out this way so things can get worse, but at least that's data.

 

Oh, you changed wheels too? If you're really just +2lbs per corner and you're having issues like this... that seems like a mechanical issue to me. Sure the AT4W sidewalls are probably stiffer than the stock Goodyear's, but they're not concrete. Sidewalls are definitely part of the suspension equation, but "big hits" are not caused by stiff sidewalls- that's suspension.

Edit: I suppose the alternative is that the suspension tuning OME did is assuming you're gonna take things slow- overland style and it is what it is. I've driven on some busted up freeways and my TH has been fine. But I haven't done any washboards or anything like that.

 

Makes sense. And that YouTuber is the Independence Overland guy.

I am going to my ranch this weekend - I’ll add 50lb corn bags back there.