Engine Timing is off (but I'm good now)

Doing my due diligence. I am doing maintenance on my engine bay basically doing anything but removing the heads (i will take the head covers off)

Truck has not had the timing belt replaced (or any related part) in the 256k miles it has been driven.

When trying to get the the engine to TDC no matter how much I turned it (and I turned it a lot) from the drivers side cam, I couldn't get the marks on the two cams and crank to line all up. (I wasn't looking at the belt lines I was looking at the colored markings on the wheels and the arrow to have the line up)

First off, I wonder if because I turned it so much that I have put a lot of fuel in the engine.
But more so
I am wondering if I get the crankshaft to TD (Top dead?) and remove the belt and then turn the cams to TD that then everything will be all good and I can continue with the job...

Without destroying my engine. It makes sense to me. Just wanting to do my due diligence, so I don't destroy my engine.That's very expensive in a very bad day.

Side note:
I'll try turning the engine from the crank bolt tomorrow instead of the cam and look into this more.

I want to know as much as I reasonably can about this before moving forward.

 

I cant help...
Not sure why youre turning engine over using cam gear bolts?
That in itself is bad & shouldn't be done...
Cant see the crank mark but neither of the cam marks are lined up from your pic, both gears too far to the right.
Your marks may not line-up perfectly with belt on due to TB wear & stretch.

if the key is off, turning engine over by hand / tools, youre not dumbing fuel into the cylinders...
Only rotate engine clockwise, I hope...

 

Your belt looks very old, I may be wrong, but the older it is, the more it will stretch. Leading to what appears to be wrong timing.

New belts often have marks directly on them.

 

Majestic
-no worries about fuel no matter how much cranking(on a muscle car with mechanical FP might matter)
-turn by crank (u got that)
-make sure engine at TDC…and all T marks line up…..then take off belt
-mechanic told me……always start taking Tbelt off by removing the lowest pulley…….on any vehicle with TBelt
-get familiar with some vids (Timmy the tool man) is well respected here
-after putting new TBelt on and all T marks line up on all cam sprockets and crank sprocket……pull pin on TBelt tensioner
Then rotate engine 2 revolutions by hand and check all T marks again

go slow and double check marks
After pulling pin….and off….NP
Put tensioner in vise, compress, insert pin (I use a thin Allen wrench) and start over
U got this
Vids always help
GL

 

Definitely not using cam bolts I'm using this. (I should've specified.)
With the pick that wasn't to show the line up but more so what all I have going on.

I would think with the ware of the belt and the tensioner maybe going bad that the timing maybe off.

I'll try Tuesday to see how the pink mark/key lines up.

Good glad I'm not dumping fuel.

Yes ONLY clockwise.

 

Good that I wasn't dumping fuel.

Should I Only turn by crank or would I be able to turn by cam wheel? (Tool I'm using above)

I have been turning by cam wheel. I'll turn by crank on Tuesday and see if things change.

More so asking if the the the Key is TDC but the cams are not what do I do then? (I still have to rotate by the crank instead of cam wheel to see if anything changed.)

Yes, I have watched many of Timmy the Toolman's videos those guys are amazing! I am currently doing the "replacing heads" but I will not be removing the heads.

 

Regardless what youre using, should rotate the engine by the crank only, just as if engine was running....
Use the crank pulley bolt but space it out so the threads / tip of bolt doesnt bottom out in the end of the crank.
If you need alot of washers, sometimes you can use a 1/2" drive shallow socket over the crank dampner pulley as your spacer.
Turning the engine by the cam gear isnt normal flow & things can jump, should be done ever....

Its just general knowledge, along with you shouldn't rotate engine counter clockwise when the T-belt is attached...
Making small adjustments after you have the belt off, no big deal....

 

I'm not looking at the belt when I'm referring to things not lining up for TDC. Yes the belt definitely has stretched and cracked a lot.

 

Ya the belt is longer, leading to the cams not hitting their marks.

Share a closer pic but there's no reason to reuse that belt if its as I think it is.

 

Another basic tip when installing the new belt.
Start at the crank & then to the driver side cam.
You want zero slack in that transition,
Timing belt needs to sit tight between all pulleys & all the excess slack has to be on the passenger side where the belt tensioner is.
If you dont do it like that, your cams or crank will be off 1-2 teeth / cogs, & you will be doing it twice...

 

I was doing what timmy the tool man was doing in his video. I'm guessing he was wrong?

Noted ill use some washer to space out the bolts.

 

Never seen any of his videos.
Not ragging on you...
Ive been an engine mechanic for ford for 32 years...
I might not be tube famous but I know a thing or 2...

By rotating the crank, youre pulling the timing belt just as if the engine was running.
if your rotating the cam, its not the same flow & putting abnormal stress on everything, along with potential of jumping time...

All the ford shop manuals in big red letters always state never rotate a timing belt engine counter clockwise,
Actually even states that on alot of timing chain engines too, just stresses all the guides & can un-time the engine.

Not trying to scare you, just small tips that could help & cost you some mistakes / mishaps...

You got this!!!

 

The belt is fried. I have a replacement. Here's my tread to do with the truck in question. https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...change-parts-before-critical-failures.852279/

And here's that belt.


I definitely agree with you there a good chance the stretch of the belt has led to it having incorrect timing.

I do get the occasional jump in idle and then it drops down. No check engine lights related to it. Just "Exhaust bank one sensor one" and "transmission solenoid" that have been on for a long time. (My dad tried fixing them in the past but nothing fixed it other than the check engine light bulb burning out... lol) I have read into the Exhaust check engine code and it maynot be the sensor.

 

I do trust you with those credentials. Timmy does make mistakes here and there. (Tho I didn't see it in the description where he mentions it) I will definitely only rotate by crank for now on.

Yes I appreciate your help and feedback. Here to definitely learn and understand.

 

Also,
Says here that you are right. (Not that I trust the AI thingy to much but that's enough information for me.)

 

see, I know a thing or 2......
Never watched his videos, I think theyre all crazzyyyy, except for the car care nut...
He seems to have it together....
Scotty Kilmer crazzzzy,
Fordtechmakuloco, well, its all in his tube name, def crazy.....
Fordbossme, CRAZZZZZYYYYY.....

 

I have realized, I am 97% certain that all that matters is the lower key/crank mark. I get that lined up and continue the job.

I will be taking the head covers off so I will be able to inspect the camshaft to make sure that the dots on them (as seen below) line up properly, then install the belt on with the all the lines TDC.

Learned that I shouldn't turn with the cam wheel and to use washers or a socket on the crank bolt to not bottom it out.

 

The marks only line up once. And that is on belt install. After that, you are only guessing. Belt tension on the driver side is the only way to get it right. You can, and should collapse the belt tensioner and pin it before you put a new belt on.

 

Nope I will use a new tensioner.

Yes I already know about the belt only lining up once.

No you are not guessing. The cam wheels have a mark and the rear timing cover has a mark (same with the crank) , there is no guess work to TDC.

I've watched Timmy the tool mans video 7 part series twice and many other videos as well.