1st Gen Haltech ECU Discussion

I assumed that was a typo, ya. So keeping it locked is greatly beneficial from a temperature perspective, you're saying?

 

I am saying that when it is locked, it is effective. That is in 3rd and 4th gears and dependent on engine load. Not sure what you mean by 'keeping it locked'.

 

Nope. Still stock ratio on skinny 32's. Gears have been on the list since day one but I constantly go back and forth on if I want to go up to 35's or settle in on 33's

 

Ouch! I don't feel like 33s is settling.

IMO, some of your trans fluid temps issues are compounded by the stock gearing. Some extra weight contributes too. And even tho the tires are skinnies, they are still larger than stock and have worsed the gear ratio problem

 

Yeah I've had hopes that gearing would reduce trans temps I just want to buy one and cry once. 33's are still a step larger than what I have so no shame there and I've impressed more than just myself on where these tires could get me which I why I think 33's could be enough for what I need but I still want 35's

 

I doubt timing map has changed since you saw it, just note the Knock control trims on this

 

I am not a seasoned tuner by any means, so please take what I have to say with a grain of salt. I'd be happy to hear others weigh in as well.

But looking at your map, I highlighted what would typically be your cruise cells (or at least, where I am typically during cruise). They look way too soft. I've been spending some time trying to rebuild the stock ECU's ignition tables, and it is typically in the high 20's, sometimes as high as 31 degrees or so in cruise. I also notice that for a given load row, you keep advancing ignition higher and higher as RPM increases. My understanding is that you should increase timing up until MBT (which for the 5vz is somewhere around 2,900ish RPMs), then you start tapering timing back down. I've noticed that this is what the stock ECU does as well (one of the benefits to running my ECU in parallel with the stock ECU, I can view the comparisons in real time).

 

Appreciate your feedback and taking the time to look!

I'm wrapping up my audio renovation and need to swap my A/C wire so hopefully soon ill be able to take a knock sensor wire, and wire it into the aux port of my head unit so I can prove you correct

 

I thought that was my job in this thread

 

Division of labor?

 

You come back from vacation and had to start back at the noob section of emojies haha

 

Knock ears? How bout knock stereo?

 

I'm sure you'll get an earful, I find the knock stereo a fun idea (might work well if it gets loud enough, cab is quiet enough, and your equalizer is pretty decent). I prefer the knock channel logging instead for tuning sake along with the spectrogram if you're not two man live tuning. But I was more observing the timing discussion with uh... intrigue.

 

I assume this is a subtle jab at my input on his ignition map?

 

I didn't think it was subtle haha. In all seriousness you're right he's missing some timing down in the cruising and low load regions compared to most. I'm not sure about compared to you since you're always running an E mix though which would lend to a higher knock threshold. I am wondering if you're confusing MBT with peak torque though, since MBT is achieved throughout a rev range when timing/fueling are optimal and not knock limited (MBT for a given load amt) and peak torque occurs at a certain RPM during a WOT pull, it's just the overall highest number for the engine in general. Although I have no idea where you got 2900 from TBH, the 5VZ torque peak is ~3800 from the factory and shifts around 2-300rpm lower with forced induction typically, assuming stock cams and intake runner size. I'm not sure how his map is formatted usually, maybe he always uses absolute kPa and transposes RPM to the other axis. But I'd assume you did that to translate to your own map for comparison since RusEFI is stuck in those units. But when explaining, it might be worth it to translate it back so your comments on rows vs columns doesn't get lost in the static.

 

True, you aren't really that subtle.

Been running 93 octane the last several tanks as I've been logging the stock ECUs ignition map. It advances timing up to around ~2,900rpm and then tapers back down after that. His ignition map keeps advancing timing all the way through the RPM range (and up to 7k rpms, which surely he's not spinning his engine up that fast?). I was simply pointing that out, as when compared to the stock ECU's map he seems under advanced in places, and over advanced in others. Just my observation. Your comment of "I'm sure you'll get an earful" certainly seems to imply that my ignition advance settings I have for for my cruise will cause his "earful". Well don't hold back, let's hear what you have to say on the subject. Especially considering that I based my out-of-boost ignition cells on the factory ECU timing map.

 

I seem to have struck a nerve, so sorry, that's my bad we don't know each other that well I suppose, it's not that personal though unless you want it to be for some reason. I was commenting more in jest than grave concern for your advice to Trey, he experiments a ton and has knock monitoring anyway so even if it was entirely terrible advice he doesn't have much to worry about. Also I'll address the earful bit now since that wasn't in regards to anything you said. I said that because the wideband knock sensors are basically little microphones, unlike the stock tuned resonance ones, they transmit every frequency (within audible reason) in the signal... it is literally like listening to the inside of your engine not just knock. He's feeding that directly into a stereo... so yeah he's gonna get an earful of noise. You wanna stow the animosity? It's amateur tuning not exactly something you need a chip on your shoulder about if you're just starting to learn. Did I not also say that you're right, he should generally have more cruising timing, and yes you're right it shouldn't keep gaining advance up to 7000 steadily (you can turn em that fast but it all falls off way earlier anyway so it's nearly pointless on a stock engine). But the Haltech has the resolution so why not have some cells as a failsafe in case of an overrev or something. You can however begin to gain advance again after the lull near peak torque, which occurs around 3800ish rpm. That's cool that you got your timing map filtered through the lens of the ESA in the stock ECU, if it works for you that's neato, but really we have no idea what the actual timing map is since ESA is always moving the values around due to perceived (it picks up false knock sometimes) knock and it has walls and valleys that the ESA is designed to ignore as well (again due to the liklihood of false knock occuring), likely what you're seeing occur at 2900rpm since toyota knock monitoring becomes less active at 3000rpm and the base timing map is more conservative without ESA working on top.

 

I was withholding my true thoughts as to not mask my appreciation, but Zane covered them

 

This is interesting. I didn't know that's how the factory ECUs approached it.