Frame Doomsday

I'd say it's down to a math problem, but that frame is done.

 

I agree.

Insurance fraud is no bueno and one does darn sure not wish to write about it, even jokingly, on a public web forum. I have a buddy of mine who was ...ahem... visited by the Secret Service for a very very very poor, tasteless, remark he posted about one of our presidents on FaceBook. He would rather forget that 48 hrs of his life.

And to be clear, although I was suggesting an "off the books" repair above, that is nowhere near fraud. I meant no such thing. And stated so. That was a business practice suggestion - to absolve a potential repair shop the worry of financial liability and thus feeling obligated to turn down work that could have otherwise been quite easy and profitable. Of course, if there are state consumer protection laws that *require* written estimates and receipts, then I revoke my suggestion in such a scenario.
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Now, back on subject.
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I do beg to differ a little bit on the OP's frame. Yes, there are places of corrosion. Around weld joints and the exhaust and points that retain moisture. Yes, it is a concern because it is only going to get worse. But for now, yes, I will continue to suggest it can be repaired. It is not that hard to weld flat bar, cold rolled steel, sections into a frame. This is still a reasonable decision for the OP in my humble opinion.

In the meantime, I wish to suggest there are indeed reasonable "safeguards" in place to protect all of us mortals sharing the road. The best one I can think of every state's annual vehicle inspection process. Of course, in some states, newer vehicles can be exempt for the first 5-10 years. And while this particular Taco may now be exempt, based on age, from emission requirements, it is certainly *not* for the annual safety and roadworthy inspection.

Last but not least, I would suggest whatever is left of that coating needs to be removed ASAP. You can see in a couple of the pictures where it is flaking off. I'm not sure what that is - but it appears to be a thicker rubberized style coating. No, no, no a thousand times no. That type of coating literally encapsulates moisture and makes corrosion worse.

There is a huge sticky thread on coatings here. In a nutshell, one needs to use OIL-based products from Day 1 such as FluidFilm, Cosmoline, or Woolwax. This is the only way to prevent frame rot in areas where the roads are salted.

Cheers and apologies for the length,
Andy

 

OP if you could find a donor frame that would be the best bet for a new frame. I had to do some minor repairs to my frame about a year ago and couldn’t find a donor frame. A friend of mine was adamant that we replace the frame, so he looked at getting a new one and it was $4k. Getting it swapped with not needing any new parts will probably run somewhere between $3k - $5k.

I ended up just fixing mine because it wasn’t a big deal what I had to do. If you really want to keep the truck these are some things to consider. Good luck with whatever you decide to do…

 

I think you guys are being a little optimistic here. If a spot like that exists on the frame there’s probably 10 more that are paper thin and about to fail.

I’d try to find a donor truck with a rust free frame. Maybe one that was in a roll over in a south west state or something.

 

One of those rare occasions with “part it out” seems appropriate.

 

mine was looking like that, bought a frame to swap out

 

The absence of a receipt doesn't magically "absolve the shop of liability". If they touch it and then somebody gets hurt bad enough they have a degree of responsibility, paperwork or no paperwork.

I wrench on cars for a living and I can tell you personally that any time someone comes in and starts asking about under-the-table repairs i tell them to fuck off right quick. That's asking for trouble in the long run. Receipts protect the business just as much as the customer

It sounds like you'd have good intentions about the whole thing but I can assure you most people looking for under-the-table work do not..

 

Fair enough. I respect that very much.

And yes, my intentions were genuine. Thanks. I was assuming the OP actually wants to repair his truck and I was merely making a suggestion to facilitate that end. At the end of the day, the desired outcome was "good" --> get the truck repaired. Extend the life. Make appropriate decisions about cost.

Frames can be repaired. That is just a fact, Jack. And it may be less expensive than replacing a frame.

Anyway, for those of you interested in my *brief* discourse about risk, as it relates to this type of truck repair, please keep reading.
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In simple terms,

Risk = the Likelihood of an Event Happening x Consequences of that Event Happening

Consider our simple example here. And let's make it even simpler and just narrow our time frame down to the next 2 years. After the frame has been repaired by a trained welder with typical experience working on autos.

What is the likelihood of a frame failure after a proper repair in the next 2 years?
Unless your an automotive engineer with expertise in this area, that's almost impossible to quantify. Defining "frame failure" itself is a provocative concept. Is that a fatigue crack? Or a complete separation of a box-beam steel segment underneath the passenger cabin? Either way, I would suggest that the likelihood of a frame failure is LOW after a correct repair.

We are working in qualitative terms here. And one must remember the frame has been correctly repaired. Remember also, we have framed (pun intended) the issue into the next two years only. So one could argue the likelihood is even VERY LOW.

FYI --> and this can seem contradictory, but even if the entire frame was replaced, the likelihood of a subsequent frame failure is still not ZERO. What if the replacement frame has corrosion issues? What if it was bent and won't mate up correctly? What if the mechanic thusly cross-threaded a K member bolt and snapped it off and didn't tell anyone? What it if cannot be aligned correctly afterwards? All food for thought. Especially for those espousing the only solution is a frame replacement. Easier said than done.

What are the consequences of a *repaired* frame failure? Another provocative question. I think we would all pretty much agree that six non-seat belted passengers suddenly being ejected at 85 MPH across six lanes of oncoming freeway traffic is absurd. Remember again, this is a frame that was repaired.

Seriously, you cannot apply unrealistic consequence scenarios - such as the entire frame disintegrates into a dust cloud of rust particles at the same instantaneous moment. For the sake of reasonable argument here, let's consider this consequence. You are driving on a rippled & rutted fire road to go camping. You, your wife, and your dog are inside. Your gear is properly stowed in the bed. Perhaps you are going a wee bit to fast for conditions. And darn it, your repaired frame cracks around the rear leaf spring suspension mount where you had it re-welded.

Truck sags, maybe starts acting like a flat tire, and you pull over. This is not a fire road side repair. You're not on level ground. And your recovery gear is not useful in this scenario. You're not going any further. You gotta call for one expensive tow and your weekend plans are unfortunately over.
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Now, we can try at least to qualitatively describe the risk. Because this is a hypothetical event that has not yet even happened.

Therefore, by definition, the LOW or VERY LOW RISK outcome here would be things like:
* broken down truck
* the cost of a tow job
* perhaps a sprained ankle by you stepping in a rut while trying to help the tow truck driver
* disappointed wife, very sad dog :-(

The bubonic plague has not recurred. Society is unharmed. Life goes on.

Let's even consider the scenario, where a shop did go on record and had provided an estimate, written repair ticket, and receipt.

Terms and language like "Workman like repair was performed. This, that, and the other thing were replaced with in-kind steel channel and TIG welded. Welding certificates and resume for technician who made described repairs are on file in office. Vehicle was road-tested and visually inspected and currently meets state inspection standards. Customer accepted repair conditions as made and was advised, and as is stated here, due to the nature of the repair, this work is not guaranteed beyond 30 days.

State laws may supersede, like repairs maybe have to be guaranteed for 90 days. But I think I'm making my point.
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These are descriptive phrases that will make a lot of sense to those reading.

Risk Seeking:
* Evil Knievel
* the Red Bull dude who jumped from the hot air balloon from outer space at like 80,000 ft above sea level
* the dude who took his homemade submarine down to soul-crushing pressure depths at the bottom of the Atlantic to sightsee through a freaking plastic window around the wreckage of the Titanic, while blatantly ignoring warnings from engineers and warning signs, and died when it imploded

Risk Neutral:
* See above. Me.
* All of you. Every time you drive to work.
* Oilfield wildcat exploration well drillers, believe it or not. They work on probabilities of success not much different from risk.
* All of us when we get new tires. I.e., we all want good tires that will last and are affordable.

Risk Averse:
* Neuro surgeons. Hippocratic oath. First, do no harm. Paralysis, stroke, and death are often consequences and the likelihood is real.
* Pregnant mothers and roller coaster ride operators. Duh
* Commercial airlines. No matter the likelihood, the consequences of airplanes crashing, are ... ahem ... never good for business. I've always joked about this - lightheartedly - but commercial airline operators really don't give a rip about your baggage, your seat assignment, or the quality of the peanuts. Sit down, shut up, don't be that drunk Burger King hat-wearing idiot, and be quiet. The goal of your flight is to arrive alive. Everything else is gravy.

 

A Tacoma frame started life as a roll of sheet steel which was cut into pieces, stamped and fused together primarily with high-amperage electricity.

 

That all makes sense but at the end of the day none of us are seeing this frame in person. We’re all just guessing at how bad it really is. If a roughly 4-6in rust hole exists in the frame that’s not good. Could you patch it and get a couple more years out of it? Maybe. Is it safe? I don’t know without seeing it in person but there’s a very good chance it’s not. Personally I wouldn’t want to be anywhere near this truck on the highway. If it hits a big pot hole or has to do an evasive maneuver that causes a lot of stress on the frame I don’t want to be a part of that science experiment to see how bad things end up.