Maybe they could do a better job of enforcing the law if they actually knew it...

IBTL...woohoo!!!!

 

---Counterpoint---

As far as not posting a threat, I think having a gun is a bit of a red flag. A nerf gun or water gun wouldn't be threatening, but in my opinion (granted, opinions are like assholes, everybody has one), I think any resonable person would be alarmed by someone walking down the street with a gun either in their hand, or holstered on their waist. We've come a long way since the wild west and it's not common to see anyone other than the police walking around with guns on their side, legal or not, you just don't see it that much.

Because cops aren't graced with the ability of seeing the future, while waiting for an answer to the above question, the subject could have equally pulled his weapon on the cop and shot him. Not justifying the sgt not knowing his local laws, I could easily see any cop reacting the way he did. Last I checked, people don't go into law enforcement to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and hope they don't come out dead, on the contrary, they too want to live happy, long, healthy lives as we all do, and unlike us, have to deal with an element not to many of us are aware of.

It could easily be argued that the gentleman could also have just done what the sgt asked him, let him do his investigation, and in that same 5 minutes, been on his way and the whole ordeal would never have seen the light of day.

And lastly, as far as the verbal lashing, how did you react the last time someone cut you off, or did something stupid, or anything else far less threatening but stressful at the time? Right, wrong indifferent, we all handle moments differently...

 

Some depts do have officer's recorded

My girlfriend has a camera in her car, and wears a remote audio recorder that records everything that is said when she's outside the car.

 

It's whos way to get even- the cops? The police didnt arrest him, the District Attorney's Office is the who launched and investigation and pressed charges.

And if you think that the DA is a puppet for the cops, google Dade County State Attorney and Miami Police Chief- I cant speak for Philly, but down here the state attorney and cops are not buddy-buddy

 

Sounds like the cops in NJ, this state has the worst gun laws. You can't carry at all open or conceal. You have to have a firearms ID (requires background check from the State Police) for a focking BB gun here.

 

Bumping a dead horse

 

"Igorance of the law is no man's excuse"

 

You are "CORRECT!" It is no joke to point a weapon with the intent to take a human life...and the officer committed a felony by pointing a deadly weapon at the individual without probable cause!!!

 

Maybe we should all walk around with recorders...it wouldn't certainly change the direction of the courts. I wonder if the Cop had his dash cam on. That should have captured everything to include voice....Hmmmm what do you guys think?

 

Yep just like in Syria where the security forces shoot people for not doing what they are told! Remember this is America and we can do or say just about anything we want to as long as we don't injure someone else. I understand your point but comments lean towards a police society...that means the govt is in control of you and something about a revolutionary war reminds me not to trust the govt. This is why we have the check and balance system in our democracy and look what its done for the country...WE ARE THE GREATEST PEOPLE AND COUNTRY IN THE WORLD AND IN HISTORY to have ever lived on this planet.

The debate and your position in this matter is "GREAT!" This is what holds our govt in check and keeps the people aware of what is happening...

 

Our rights are slowly being taken away.
He was in the right legally. This old fart needs to be behind a desk...
Just like every profession, there are those that need to be put out to pasture.

 

All good points Mr. Brown but remember:
1) We have a constitution that guarantee's us the right to bear arms. This amendment was put in place out of fear of an out of control govt.

2) "Shall draw their weapon---got it...draw it and have it at the ready. Not point it ready for use. If someone points a gun at you they are telling you they are going to "kill you!"

3) When I graduated from the academy we had over 200 criminal laws memorize and memorized more when we were in the field as police officers.

4) Excellent point--"Innoncent until proven guilty!"

5) Follow a lawful order??!!--did the sgt give a lawful order or was it unlawful and if he gives a unlawful what is the sanction to be taken against him. Are you saying under the rules of engagement in this case he could have justifiably taken this mans life?

Two questions for you:

What (4 conditions)must be present for a person to be considered under arrest?

When is the only time an adjudication of guilt is made in our criminal justice system?

You answer these and you'll see why the actions of the officer were not only wrong but almost dead wrong....

 

I retract...

 

and thats a perfect example of how a few cops make us all look bad... they could have just been normal people and asked him what was up? if he had a permit? check the permit, run the serial number thru NCIC, make sure all was good, then carry on normal conversation i.e. what kind of gun? how often do you go shooting? you like it?, and once the small talk was done, "have a good one man" and carry on with whatever you were doing because at that point you cant articulate any suspicion that a crime was being committed. I'm 20 years old, im high strung and gung ho to make arrests and be busy, I want the big call every night, but for the most part we get handed bags of shit, and he said she said, and piles of paperwork, having to ask to be able to come to the PD to take a dump, and if we dont get permission, to the FD we go, we work 10-12hrs at a time, dont get paid shit, take all the overtime and details we can to make a comfortable living for our family that we dont get to spend holidays or vacations with. are there some tools out there that dont get it and probably never will? yep. but you gotta remember, if someone gets stopped 10 times, and 9 of those ten times the cops were nice and personable, treated you with respect, you would remember the ONE time the cop was an asshole and most people think all cops are bad based on their 5% of dealings with assholes. most of us are normal guys, have a job to do, some of us have quotas depending on our departments but thats not OUR fault or decision, neither is any of the laws or our policies dictating to us how we deal with people in violation of those laws. most of us want to help people, if I gotta arrest you as the result of a traffic stop, ill ask you if someone can come get your truck, or if i can move it to the closest parking lot for you so you dont get stuck with a huge tow bill. were not writing alot of tickets because the economy sucks, and if toe comes to testicle and i need help on the side of the road at midnight one night because im getting my ass handed to me by bubba whos 7ft tall and 300 pounds i dont want people driving by saying good, that guys an asshole he deserves it, I want people to stop and help me when i need it, becuase i was a decent guy when it came to our interactions. so, yea there are a few cops out there that make us all look bad... this is a good example.

 

Nicely said 650H1!
I have been in law enforcement for 10 years and could not agree with you more. If it is legal to open carry in your jurisdiction you should know it and be prepared for an encounter. I am not going to bash these officer's, except to say we have all been trained in escalation and how it is to be used. Not a Monday morning quarterback just saying there are some in every profession, only difference is ours makes the national news.

 

This.^^

So profanity isn't professional, non compliance with the police is dumb. If you are right and you have nothing to worry about, respect the officer! Yea sure I would taken aback a bit if I turned and saw a police officer with a gun pointed at me! But on the other side, I am an LEO and its would be strange seeing someone walking down the the road with a gun in plain sight. Well maybe not strange in AK but strange in the middle of a large ass town. And what do we know about this area? What part of town was this guy in? Is anyone here from that area of town? Whats the crime like?

Both sides have issues, good and bad. Should he have complied? Yes. Should the officer have been more professional? Yes. But its a gun, you can't be too careful.

Another question, why carry a gun in plain view, unless you wanna draw attention to yourself? Like has been stated, I believe this guy just wanted to get into it with cops. Anyone who carries around a recorder is looking for a payday.

I can't wait till someone posts a damn vid on TW that praises a cop for doing an excellent job.

 

Say what?

 

The difference between you and the Peace Officer is "he (peace officer) can serve process (Warrants, summons etc)" you (citizen) can't!!!

And I think I should have said pointing a gun (deadly weapon) is a felony. It is not a felony to point a knife etc....

 

Who says the officer pointed his weapon 'with intent' to take a life?

Didn't you say you were a cop? If so, you should know that cops point there gun at people all the time- and while they are alway prepared to shoot (and shoot to kill), they NEVER intend to take life.

Where were you a cop? Did you not ever confront anybody with a knife/stick/bat/etc?

Did you ever conduct a 'felony stop' or high-risk traffic stop? These happen all the time, and procedure dictates that you point your weapon at the vehicle you've stopped. That doesnt mean you intend to kill the occupants.

Have you forgotten your 'use of force continuum'? Pointing a gun at someone is a compliance technique- not just something you do right before you blow someone's head off.