Tacoma on ice... I'll take the car instead.

Studs are great! I had them on my car (no ABS on the car) and NEVER locked the brakes up on ice or snow! I could floor the brake pedal and just hear a slight squeal as the rust rubbed off the brakes as they were forced to turn. Best damn braking I ever had in that car!

 

Well ok I'm not just pumping the brakes, my experience with them is this...I'm sliding down hill on ice road ABS is kicking in. I let off the brake turn the tire a little then hit the brakes again ABs kicks in I repeat the process sorta twisting the steering wheels back and forth. I can stop in twice the distance doing this... its all in the driver.

I AGREE 100% with Piercedtiger's approach.

 

So you guys know, even in 4lo your ABS is STILL ON (why I dont know). Also 3mph is the ABS shut off point.

Only if you have the Off-road model in 4lo w/ locker engaged is the ABS defeated.

Glad its back to snow now. Ice sucks.

 

3mph?!? damn.... I can walk faster than that! Shit, my truck will idle at 5mph. Wish there was a way to change that. Oh well. I have a switch now.

And seriously man, if you wanna try it we can do it sometime.

 

Yes i also hate my truck on light snow, but i found that driving on the ice today it was amazing. Then again i have great tires.

 

Yea, 3. Read it, and can see when I brake down my 10% grade driveway really slow she locks, going faster ABS goes off.

I've thought about the ABS defeat switch for years, but not sure w/o the locker on my TRD Sport if it can be 'fooled' thinking the locker is engaged... when I dont have one. I'll check the online manual again, the spot for the locker wire should there, just be vacant. might be able to rig something. Might take you up on the offer this time pt.

 

I think he was joking. Maybe I'm wrong though.

 

But you're forgetting, that frequently you find yourself in a situation where you can't steer away from your problem. You just need to stop.

Take my example on Page 2. The ABS kicked in while going below 10mph, maybe even 5mph, while only 10 feet or so away from the stop sign. This intersection was level, the road was mostly clear and bone dry. I had one wheel hit a patch of ice maybe 1-2 foot square.

As a result, ABS kicks in, and my slow, constant deceleration turns into an out of control cruise right through the stop sign and into the intersection. Had someone else been coming, I'd have looked like an idiot for going through a stop sign on a basically clear and dry road. I'd have had to claim mechanical failure.

How would being able to have poor quality steering control help me there?

 

Here's the deal. I think the locker just grounds out that blue/yellow wire to turn off ABS. If so, then we could do the same to yours. Only difference is you don't have the factory shut off switch like the locker equipped trucks. I think anyway....

 

the problem with abs is that it locks the brakes up too much. the only time you are going to turn out of a skid with abs going is when the actual wheels are turning. i feel that toyota doesnt allow enough time for the wheel to turn inbetween the brakes being on for it to be really effective. if wheel is locked up, it doesnt matter how much you turn the steering wheel, you are going straight. basic physics.

the traction control works really well in keeping the car straight though.

 

My comment wasn't whether Toyota's ABS is defective.. It was about ABS in general. I haven't noticed it kicking in when it shouldn't yet.

 

Just recently I tried to take a corner at about 10 MPH on snow/ice covered ground, I applied what I thought where minimal brakes but abs kicked in and I went straight about 20 ft. into a snow pile in the corner. Next time I was in 4WD so I just gave it a little gas and went right around the corner.

 

I'm not sure if it should let the wheels roll longer or not... That would probably reduce the skipping problem, and allow steering, but would increase the time to stop even more I think... I can do a GREAT job braking most of the time applying less pressure and gently pulsing the brakes. Maybe that's what the ABS should do too instead of clamping down solid, saying "oh shit they locked! let gooooo!', releasing, clamping back down......

 

well, it needs to find a way to modulate like you are doing. apply enough pressure to slow than just skid. skidding is no good for stopping or turning. i swear my 4 runner stopped way better.

 

Well that's the thing... I know how ABS *should* work, and this doesn't seem to follow it. Then again, this is the first ABS equipped vehicle I've had. I haven't noticed it a whole lot this winter, but this is my 3rd winter with it and I have newer tires. First winter I was still getting used to it and it had the craptastic RuggedFails. Second winter I had 285/75 Kumho's that worked well, but were wider that stock. This winter I have 265/75 Yokohama Geolanders which are about an inch narrower than the 285s. So maybe they offer better traction allong with my paranoia-induced granny braking.

Although, I've had the ABS kick in just backing out of my barn onto my ashpalt driveway.

 

The effectiveness of ABS will be debated by many for a long time so I won't get into any arguments.

If you're into B rated drivers ed films though take a look at this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd5KDvXbE3M

Personally for me I've found that in icy/snow conditions when ABS kicks in it's much easier to maintain control and as the video shows.. without ABS if the wheels lock you're much more likely to spin and lose control in slippery conditions. As a driver you must learn how the system works and learn to use it to your advantage. Something many drivers still don't know how to do with ABS although they've been out a long time now.

Here's another link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8F0eLvW6e8

Ok one more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3m24bjkfg0

Ok no more links after this one... do a search on YouTube and you'll find a ton of these.
I included this last link for those that have questions about Toyota's technology for ABS and traction control. Yes this is for 1/2 ton trucks but the Tundra took pretty close to top marks on this test which traditionally is biased toward American trucks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFJI0tLMVpI

 

^I'm not trying to say *ALL* ABS are bad or shouldn't be used. I'm saying *this particular* setup doesn't work well. Note the difference? Using 20 yr old videos to argue about how a brand new setup works is pointless. The concept and functionality may be identical, but the implementation and effectiveness could also be extremely different.

I know you're supposed to "stomp and hold" ABS brakes. Unfortunately, in *my* experience that has caused the truck to slide. With the ABS off I can apply MORE braking force (pedal is firmer and I can push it farther) without the wheels locking up and causing the truck to slide. I can also lock them up and stop much sooner if need be. It's like the ABS thinks the tires have locked when they haven't and releases the brakes. Or rather releases them the very instant the wheels stop turning rather than waiting a second or two to allow the stopped wheel to slow the vehicle a bit before letting it pick up speed again.

 

the 09 highlander that toyota gave me when waiting for my check sucks also.... te abs kicks on all the time and it takes forever to slow down... and if u start to slide the abs automatically turns on without touching the brakes. Its rediculous!!!

 

I look at it this way. I see tire marks like this all the time from ABS kicking in on a panic stop:

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

There's usually a 2-4" of rubber mark with an equal amount of clean asphalt between them where the ABS let off the brakes. The tires still lock and slide on the asphalt slowing the vehicle down before releasing to maintain control/avoid wearing out the tire/etc.

Our trucks seem to do this:

..........................

..........................

See the difference? Less lock up time to slow down means vehicle can actually gain speed (as several people have noted in this thread alone). Less time with the brakes released means less control over the vehicle (again, noted several times on here by different people).

 

I have to say that when you put it that way I would have to somewhat agree. The ABS does seem to pulse more rapidly then I've experienced on other vehicles. HOWEVER I've actually had the ABS on my truck kick in a couple time and have experienced both the = = = = and the ....... depending on what the road conditions were and how I was driving.

I have to say that the ABS on my truck saved my rear end this past summer when I was pulling my travel trailer. I was on a mountain road and entered a corner that turned and dipped to the right. My passenger side front tire hit a patch of wet slime that I didn't see as I was braking into the corner. ABS kicked in and caught me off guard but I went through the turn with only a tiny nudge from the trailer. My wife and I both looked at each other and were extremely thankfull that ABS kicked in. If it didn't my front tire would have locked up and the trailer would have shoved the back end around so fast that I never would have known what happened.