Gay's in the Military, What the troops think about Civilians making that decision.

#1 - berthing is gender based. They've got the plumbing, they go with the boys. You don't see Gay Boy restrooms, do you? Good luck getting seperate berthing - go look up that whole "Seperate but equal" crap from before the 1960's. Unconstitutional.

#2 - it's not like all of a sudden gays are going to be flirting with all the cute boys in uniform (sarcasm intended). All that training about sexual harrasment still stands. Conversely, that means all the straight guys can't be hating on the gay guy (harrasment goes both ways).

#3 - it's not like all of a sudden every gay in America will join the military. We're not turning into San Fransisco, people!

Will there be problems? Sure. I mean, society has incidents of problems. But it'll get dealt with under UCMJ rules. I have a feeling that most homosexuals will know better than to push the issue and try to get people pissed at them. But after a few years, it'll settle down and we'll adjust to the new standard.

 

Only a few more weeks befor this all becomes official.. Recently had my what will change what wont change brief and all the gay haters can be happy to know that not much if anything is changing with the exception that someone can admit to being gay or go to a state that has gay marriage and get married.

They do not get any of the marriage benefits though because gay marriage is not reconized on the federal level. so no BAH, family sep, Tricare .. etc. just the oppurtunity to serve their country, just wait till the first openly gay troop gets KIA, I bet Westboro's Baptist will emplode.

The point is It shouldnt freakin matter who is serving everyone should have known they are not going to make us wear pink uniforms its about people wanting to serve their country

 

glad to see that there are so many people on here that are open minded about this topic , rather than being ignorant and judgemental. there's basically only one reason any human being would ever have issues with gay people: religious extremist bullshit.... i'm always just so amazed at how thinking, reasoning human beings could buy into specific religious doctrine and teachings from other people, when not one single human being in the history of mankind has ever proven the existence of a higher being or a god. there may very well be a god or creator of some kind out there in the universe, who the hell knows, but to teach people specific beliefs and rules and rights and wrongs is completely arrogant and ignorant. homosexuality is found in virtually every animal species on the planet and just because I'm attracted to the opposite sex, and the guy next to me is attracted to the same sex, means nothing other than just that fact. my best friend in the entire world is a gay girl and even she has to deal with bible thumpers everywhere she goes telling her she's going to burn for eternity and she's going to get breast cancer from god and crazy shit like that. ridiculous that a death row inmate has the legal right to get married but gay people can't get that same civil right...... gay guys have it worse and therefore are more likely to hide it because of harrassment from psycho religious freaks, most people are brainwashed with these set beliefs from their families passing it down from generation to generation. anyway, glad to see that there are good quality open minded people out there that have good reasoning skills.

 

X2 you hit it man. They DONT belong now or ever in the service. NEVER let someone else tell you what what to think. Make up your own mind!!!!

 

The original subject of this thread was "what the troops think about civilians making the decision of gays serving in the military". Well it really doesn't matter what the troops think, it matters what they do. The options are; say "aye aye sir" and obey the order or get out when your contract is up. The US armed forces are under the control of civilian leadership (the President & service secretaries), like it or not.
My take on gays serving openly in the military? I think in a few short years we'll all wonder what the fuss was about. A gay soldier/sailor/airman can stand a watch, apply a battle dressing, service a jet, die for our country as well as anyone else. It's gonna' be alright fellers.

 

Repealing dont ask dont tell is a ridiculous mistake. You join the service you give up your right as a citizen and become u.s. property. That does not allow you to have freedoms that the outside civilian world has. Yes yes gays have rights. So do all people....Yes gays dont want to run around and rape soldiers. Fine and dandy. BUT let me tell you this...

Why is it that an openly gay soldier will be able to shower naked with his squad and yet do you see any straight men showering with a squad full of women ?....I'm sure the women wouldnt mind it and wouldnt find it the least bit DISTRACTING....

that is the key word DISTRACTING...that will kill people in combat. Honestly we have enough damn problems in this country why are we so insistent on creating more ? Why are a few people and some organizations preaching constitutional rights ?...

YOU HAVE NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS IN THE MILITARY

this whole topic is a waste of time, money, energy, and the safety of millions of soldiers

 

1) You have the rights that the military decides to give-In this case the decision makers feel that the right to be openly gay is an acceptable right. I don't think anyone needs to talk about sex at work...so how is that distracting, unless of course, someone wants to make an issue out of it.
2) There aren't millions of soldiers in the US military...and the vast majority are not involved in combat operations...so I doubt it will endanger that many folks.

 

I'll just say that IT'S UNFAIR TO ALLOW GAYS IN THE MILITARY!!!

That said, I'm military and I've had the briefs about what is happening. It's unfair to let them in at all. Their "life partners" will not be considered wife/husbands....so they can't get BAH to live off post like all other soldiers can, the military doesn't recognize same sex marriage. Chances are they won't get to live with the service member on post, cause "friends" or "girl/boy friends" can't live on post in post housing with you.....it's unfair. We were instructed to treat their "partners" as boyfriend/girlfriends for all intents and purposes. That means no emergency leave, no AER loans/medical care, etc....There are HUGE legal problems with it all, and IMHO it's NOT BROKEN, and doesn't need fixed. Anyone that wants to serve can. They just need to shut their mouth and show up right place, right time, right uniform, and fall in just like everyone else and they'll get a retirement out of it. I don't show up to work screaming "I'm straight, I'm married, and I have children"....so why show up being a poster child for anything else???

Bottom line is...the Military hardly wants people to have a family, it's a single person's game, again JMHO, so for as long as you can fall in, do so. If you can't don't. Is it about being "you", or "gay", or "lesbian", or "a woman" or "a man"......or do you fall in, become a SOLDIER, and live the way the Service needs you to live until your term of service is up???? I think soldier first, man/woman/whatever second, when you can find time. And if you can't handle that....maybe a career with a little less commitment would be better for you....just sayin.

 

The homophobia is strong within this thread.


The only thing that should matter is their desire to serve their country, not sexual preference.

 

All of the legal issues you put up should be followed by "yet." All of those things can change...and probably will...Stand by for it.

But you do bring your family to your advancements, awards, morale events, etc....And they can't. That is enuf reason to let them be gay...because you are right- They still gotta show up and toe the line so if Mary or Marv shows up to support them...Doesn't change a damn thing for you.

 

I actually don't have my family there for official functions. I find it distasteful and breach of tradition/customs for someones family to be present during military ceremonies. I've seen some peoples wife/child/etc promote them....where is the spot in a formation for a "wife"??? I've also seen someone promoted to SGT while crying and sitting in a chair...not exactly something that inspires strength and confidence in leadership. My wife was military, she knows how it is. She also understands my commitment.

So, even though the federal government doesn't acknowledge state laws allowing gay marriage, YET, when/if they do would they also acknowledge STATE laws that allow their citizens to smoke pot medically??? State law is state law right? Just a point for arguments sake. Like I said, anyone can toe the line. And when they can't, they get out. I respect the opinions of others, and I realize it's not my call. I also know some feel VERY strongly about the subject. I'm sure if the Military offered a "freebie" chance to terminate term of service so you wouldn't HAVE to serve with gays very VERY few people would actually take the offer. I just feel there is a MUCH larger can of worms being opened than is really being looked at.

 

Really?

I remember having a discussion on this in a class i took in college, taught by a (gay) retired army officer. He referrenced a book written on Special Ops training that indicated that there are more gays (proportionally) in the spec ops community than any other MOS in the military...

And there's this:

In March, Adm. Eric Olson, who heads Special Operations Command, was asked about the ban during a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing.
“I believe the time has come to consider a change to ‘don’t ask, don’t tell,’ ” Adm. Olson said.

"These survey results reveal to us a misperception that a gay man does not 'fit' the image of a good warfighter—a misperception that is almost completely erased when a gay service member is allowed to prove himself alongside fellow warfighters.
"Anecdotally, we heard much the same. As one special-operations force warfighter told us, 'We have a gay guy [in the unit]. He's big, he's mean, and he kills lots of bad guys. No one cared that he was gay.' "
​

 

I agree with you about the crying promotion part. You are one of the first and only people I've seen that hasn't had family of some sort around for significant events- Military is lifestyle...And (mho) your family puts in as much to getting your there as you do.

As far as the pot thing- That is still a federal law and a condition of employment. In this case- The conditions of emplyoment changed-Being openly gay is okay now. If the powers that be see fit to make the "no dope" condition of employment go away- So be it. I still won't do it but if others want to...More power to them!!

I'm sure there will be issues- There always are...but they will get worked out and things will get back to normal in short order I think. But only time will tell.

 

I cant believe how many people are still butt hurt about this. Pun intended. Get over it, bc if your in the military its your only option seeing as you can seperate bc you disagree with it. so your stuck workin with that gay guy that will finally be able to show up to work and not have to worry about being kicked out bc of it.

 

Does everyone really think that just because they will be able to openly say "hey im gay" that they're going to? All they want is to not be kicked out in case one day they mention something that reveals their orientation.
Now if you're in the military, the next time you're in a combat situation, and you get injured (which I pray never happens), I suggest you stick to your morals and ask the soldier pulling you to cover, or the medic working to save your life if they are homosexual.If they are tell them to leave you because you don't feel they should be allowed to serve.

 

You sound like someone that tried to join the military but didn't get past MEPS. Those of us that did make the cut are proud of our service to this great Country and would do it all over again.

As for the military not paying squat, you wouldn't believe what I was making when I retired. Yes, I retired at 43 and I'm enjoying the hell out of it. Thank you for your tax dollars by the way.

 

In five years I'm yet to have seen ANY of my senior NCO's families....anywhere, ever. Officers on the other hand, you see their wives quite often as that is part of their "culture". I haven't even seen a PICTURE of a SGM or 1SG wife!!!
I have no doubt the issues CAN and WOULD/WILL be worked out. Like I said I feel it's unfair, either full service or none. And our military and country I feel has enough to "work out" right now. Lets put some of these "conflicts" overseas away for a couple years so we CAN properly address these "at home" issues. JMO

That is one of the HUGE benefits of the military. An early retirement.. And yes at the higher ranks/later years some good money can be made, but what about the amount you made for the MAJORITY of your years??? It's no secret, anyone can look up the DOD pay scale and see the pay charts. Not HORRIBLE, just not anywhere near "well paying" IMO.

I agree, there already are lots of Gays in the military. Everyone I know hasn't had a problem serving with them. Unless they used their "gayness" as an excuse to not work/show up. That's the same as someone wanting to be a woman first, then a soldier. Or "grown A@@ man", then a soldier. That's why I feel the system wasn't broken how it was. There has been no gain in actual rights while serving. No BAH, medical for lovers/family, housing, etc...so nothing has changed except they SAY openly they are gay. But it isn't appropriate to talk about sexual preference/experience in the workplace now is it? So in private conversation it can be said, but it always could anyways....

 

sounds like you are closed minded to any other view but yours. Calling people bible thumpers and close minded just proves you are a hypocrite. No one will ever agree on this subject. The people who are against it are close minded assholes who cant see everyone deserves a chance to serve and the people who are pro repeal are ****. Thats how the argument goes right. Can people not just admit that this repeal Will cause problems within the social sub culture of the military. Right or wrong it will. Furthermore the military is not an organiztion that requires the same laws as the civiliaian sector as far as PC shit. Also as it stands gays cannot have sex by reg as oral and anal sex is sodomy and punishible under the UCMJ and seperation. Then the other side should admit in a perfect world all people should be given equal chances regardless of beliefs and life style. there I ended the argument. Now shut up and wait for the woman in combat arms argument to come around

 

Admiral Mullen asked congress to allow us to have gays in the military. Sorry ppl but it's not the civilians making the decision... We can't change the policy without approval from congress. But it was our choice to ask for the change. I met admiral mullens when he was CNO good guy!