Gay's in the Military, What the troops think about Civilians making that decision.

with the religion already wtf.

religion has no place in decision or law making when concerning others rights and freedoms. that is the basis of america unless i missed something?

it's alway's the religious not all of them mind you but, a lot of them who try to make you see the "light" well i don't want to see your light so you can shut it lol.

 

I was always thinking that Everett Koop got his uniform off the Sargent peppers album cover,, Jim

 

The hard part with being PHS is most people dont know about us and our orders are COMPLETELY different from DOD - we're only allowed about 6600 personnel per law.

I have to explain that we're kinda like the coast guard - all the pay and benefits of the "military" without belonging to the DOD.

Its really funny when navy peeps see our uniform and start wondering what the hell that collar device is. Friends, as well as myself, have been held up at the gate, the PX, tricare, and other places because active duty/GS types have no clue what our Mil ID is.

 

ok

 

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My wife works at a large university & research medical center that works closely with next door CDC in Atlanta. I have seen some unusual uniforms and different MOS symbols at CDC dining areas during lunch times.

FWIW ... from this mildly religious person ... I think that as long as gays do their job (like anyone else) ... I don't care about their private life as long as it does not infringe on my "straight beliefs".

From my past experiences dealing with gays and their "official MOS duties" ... I would say that they were often times at or near the top in their performance ratings.

To me ... It's really a "moot point" if someone is gay or straight ... as long as they do their job well ... period.
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I have served 14 years in the Army/Army NG. I would rather serve with a gay dude than a woman.
I was a young infantryman in Panama when the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy went into effect. We were brought into the Fort Davis Theater, and told by the battalion commander the official rules and regulations concerning the guideline. We all snickered, laughed at eachother, and generally acted like a bunch of 7 year olds during the briefing.
There was a mexican guy, 'Lopez' who was obviously gay, but not flamboyant Paul Lynd gay. He was a cool dude, and took a lot of shit off of everyone. He was moved into my room, and IMMEDIATELY my room was referred to as the gay room, the queer quarters, etc. I didn't give a damn, and I thought it was funny. Lopez wasn't listening to Streisand and asking to rub my feet. He would spend most of his time watching tv and smoking cigarettes. The gay issue never came up. We never talked about it, and never had any arguments.
I remember a couple of guys from another platoon came into our room at night, and this one Corporal from west Virginia said, 'stay in your rack, Bob'. For the next 5 minutes, I heard these three guys beat the ever loving shit out of Lopez. This event happened another couple of times before Lopez quit, and was chaptered out of the Army.
That same year we had a company level briefing regarding the embedding of females in combat arms roles. Our battalion EO (Equal Opportunity) NCO facilitated this briefing. We were basically told that females had no other mission while in uniform than to ruin our careers. Do not look at them, don't talk to them, and if you need pussy, go downtown.
In my years in the National Guard, I was a Squadron Battle NCO in the S3 for a Cavalry Squadron, and I had subordinates who were female. I was very standoffish and leary about their performance.
I had good reason to be hesitant about the role of females, and I can't blame the females for their shortcomings completely. With the paranoia of sexism and the fear that standards will drop to the ground. There is always the story of police departments 'lowering the wall' in obstacle courses to better accommodate less athletic females. This really worried us. In an infantry setting, you want EVERYONE to be able to ruck the most weight possible, not be hindered from monthly visits from the bitch fairy, and to generally meld into the machine. This was not possible in a headquarters element where the needs of females had to be met. We needed to set up command posts near port-a-pissers, hygiene was a major issue, and you couldn't just shove your foot up a subordinate's ass when you needed to.
Fifty percent of the problem was the younger males cock-blocking eachother, and playing peacock in front of the females. I got to the point where I preferred placing the better looking females with the older married males, and the not so pretty females with the young guys.
Seeing an E6 or E7 setting up camo nets, unloading supplies, or any kind of manual labor while young female privates sat on their asses watching was commonplace. It got to the point where I wanted them AWAY from the work, because they couldn't lift, complained too much, and would question every damn decision being made. I was much happier when I would tell them to go color, and stay away from the task at hand.
So in a nut shell, gays don't bother me. They're just regular guys that get off a different way than the rest of us. They can still shoulder their load, and still fight. When the young rednecks get over the 'god don't like that, let's beat the shit out of him' ignorant mentality out of their systems, everything will work much better.
Females DO NOT BELONG IN COMBAT ARMS ROLES. I don't care what you say. If you don't have the experience with females in the military, then shut up. If you have been around them and you think that they're great, then you're probably a weak kneed REMF.

 

I see a whole new direction with this one, maybe you should start a different thread.

 

Dam Bob almost a good post, I cant fn understand on thing. why did you let 3 ass holes beat the shit out of someone in your platoon. Thats one of the most chickenshit things I can think of. You lost the heart of Dixie for that. I don't like gays or what they stand for but 3 on 1 fuck you man. Jim

 

Thank God. I thought this was the same country that offered freedom of many things........shouldn't the right to fight be one of them?

 

I was going to reply on this but then decided it's not worth my time.

 

Okay, maybe I will. You let guys from another platoon come into your room, gang up on your room mate, whom you admitted was a "cool dude", and "beat the ever loving shit" out of him. And then you want to put down female Soldiers?

Sound like you were the one that had a visit from the "bitch fairy".

 

all i know is that gays AND females can catch a bullet just as well as the other. If they wanna get shot at that's thier choice. As long as they know not to cross the line with me and try hitting on me they will be okay. I have acouple friends that are gay that'll work just as hard as a straight guy. I look at it as he's just another guy that wants the benifits/jobs/pay/etc. that anyone else that would like to have a chance at a successful life. Why should anyone deny ANY person that?

 

I'm not, nor have I ever been, in the military. But for me this goes along the same lines as gays in Boy Scouts.

I have no problem with it really. It's not just gay folks that are molesting children. And if they're worried about gay men around young boys/men out in the wilderness, how is it differant than a straight female?

Let them volunteer and support or Country how they wish. Last I checkd there wasn't a long line to volunteer for either the Military or BSA because not many people want to do it.

 

Good catch and I am glad you mentioned it.

As for women in service, I have seen plenty..and I have seen some great work from them. We have some in CSAR and they have done the job just like the rest of us.

As for some chicks sitting on their asses...great opportunity to exercise some leadership.

 

when I was in,I believe it was don't ask don't tell. seemed to work just fine.

 

So you are gay, and it worked just fine?

 

no way! we had suspicions about a few,but they weren't walking around saying i'm gay and proud of it. we had a different term for them then. here's a good one-captain-army-vietnam era intelligence-flipped out-discharged W/all benefits.while inquiring about marching in a local parade"supposedly" told the post commander-I'm not queer anymore,I got married.I went to school with this dude,he was a jerk. he spit on me,either 11th or 12th grade,I backhanded him and knocked him out of the chair.He was flopping on the floor like a fish. teacher came in and told him to get back in his seat. thought i'd be in trouble, but that was that. shook my head when I heard this guy was a captain.

 

Ok, so this topic caught my eye, and is a very strong point of contention for me...I will caveat my perspective on the subject with the fact that I have not read every post in this thread and these are my perspectives and my opinions on the subject so bear with me.

By all means, and for the record, I am not opposed the subject of choice, preference biological makeup that folks have. I realize that there are many varying perspectives on the subject and that is what makes America great (or used to...)


Anyway, I distinctively remember getting into a very heated discussion with a long time friend and co-worker over the subject when it was announced last December. The primary issue being that the individual I had this debate with had NEVER served in the military, yet felt compelled to tell me how "there would be no real impact by passing this legislation." in their "all knowing, all seeing", sort of demeanor. Needless to say, it struck a nerve with me because my immediate thought was "how can this individual who has never had the courage or patriotism to sign their name on the dotted line and serve tell me what is best for me when it comes to matters of my service!!?" Well, needless to say I did serve my country and although I was never deployed during current events, I was on mobility my entire military career and deployed several times during my tour. Many of these deployments under similar conditions to what our troops are experiencing today. Based upon my experience living in relatively close quarters during deployments, it can and will have an impact. But this individual would never get that...needless to say this subject has strained our long term friendship, which is a strong argument for my perspective on the subject here...


However in light of the current events in the world and US politics; lately, I feel...no, I BELIEVE that this subject falls directly under the guise of "political correctness". Which for me is the real problem here. I will say flat out - In my opinion, the need for folks to "come out" in ANY professional environment military or civilian is counter-productive to the common job, goal, mission. Lets face it, it detracts from the real issues we face in life as they pertain to our jobs and especially while putting ourselves or our children in harms way. There is no place for it!.

That being said, I want to reiterate that I have no issue what so ever on folk's preference, belief, choice, or whatever the proper term for the subject is. I believe we all recognize those folks who are something other than heterosexual, and I believe those of us who have served both under the era of don't ask don't tell, prior, or after, recognize and respect those folks for who they are not their preference or belief. I can say personally that while I was in, I recognized those folks that were different, but I gave them the respect they deserve just the same, because they were serving their country, they were doing their job. The focus was and should always be the job or MISSION. The last thing we need is some bureaucrat to use this subject as a tool to advance their personal political agenda, which seems to be a common tactic in politics in these trying times.

Finally, to get off my soap box, removing the don't ask don't tell, and making it ok to come out in the military has more negative than positive impacts in terms of policy changes and cost impacts to the taxpayers and messing with it opens a up a whole new political "Pandora's Box" IMO.

 

I think it's a lot more than just political correctness.

Believe it or not a lot of people think that there should be no discrimination again sexual orientation sanctioned by our government, which is what "don't ask, don't tell" ultimately is.

Yes this might conflict with a lot of other people's beliefs and may not prove easy in a military that let's a gay member get the living shit beat out them by fellow volunteers.

I think it is our governments responsibility to end the discrimination and make it work.

 

I guess this is something we're going to learn to live with, like it or not.more and more states are passing laws allowing gay marriage. I know of one family that has 3 gays. one brother has a female,another brother has a male, and the sister has a male. 3 sets of parents-3 gays. must be something in the food. probablly just a matter of time before the military accepts married gays,if they don't already! wonder how many battlefield injuries have been taken care of by a gay medic,or corpsman. probablly more than you realize! doubt if anyone said -get the hell away from me,you freaken ******! what would you do if your mom left your dad for a woman,or your brother or sister was gay. think about it. it's happening more and more.