questions on values of some guns

I have a dirt bike I'm trying to sell thats worth about $2500, well this guy asks me if I'm interested in trading for some guns, which I say yeah cause I kind of enjoy collecting guns, tho I don't know much about them. Here is what he has:

Swedish AK47

Belmont 7400 308 semi auto

Colt National Match 45 auto

colt series 70 gold cup

Thats about all I know about them, I'm probably most interested in the colts.

If anyone has any idea of the value or durability/reliability/accuracy of any of these, please chime in!

 

take both colts and call it an even trade?

 

if those are real colts they should easily be worth about a grand and some change each. lmk if i'm wrong.

 

I will check gunbroker and see what I find, thanks!

 

Don't buy any firearm you cannot inspect first. Not that there is a problem with most mail order sales, but should there be a problem you are entirely dependent of the good offices of a stranger. It is always better to deal face to face with the seller.


How to check the condition of a used handgun--general points

Before handling any firearm, always open the action and verify that both the chamber and the magazine are empty. Remove the magazine if possible. Every time a firearm changes hands it should be cleared.


1. Look at the overall condition of the gun. Notice the condition of the bluing and the overall wear. Look for rust pitting on external metal surfaces. Are the grips in good condition? All screws should be tight and the screw heads un-marred. The gun doesn't have to be perfect in every area, but it should show care rather than neglect. A pistol could be rough on the outside, yet perfect on the inside, but the chances are that an owner who didn't care for the external parts of a gun also didn't care for the parts you can't see.

2. The size, shape and angle of the grip should fit your hand. When you bring the gun to eye level your master eye should be looking straight down on the barrel. The gun should not be tipped up or down. Having a gun that points naturally is especially important for a pistol that might be used for protection.

3. Look carefully down the external length of the barrel to see that it looks straight and there are no subtle bulges. Don't buy any handgun if you suspect that the barrel (or the cylinder of a revolver) has been bulged, no matter how slightly, or if it is not straight. Also look at the crown of the muzzle--it should not be dinged.

4. Note the position of the rear sight on guns with adjustable sights. If it is way off to one side, suspect some sort of problem and ask to shoot the gun to verify accuracy before purchase. If the seller refuses, pass on the gun.

5. Check the condition of the grips. There should not be any splits, chips, or cracks in the grips, particularly if you are looking at a discontinued model (for which it may be hard to find replacement grips). Scratches in the grip finish, worn checkering, and tiny nicks in the grips will not affect the gun's function, but should lower the price.
As the screws holding wood grips to the grip frame are tightened they will tend to pull deeper and deeper into the wood. Check to see that they are not about to pull clear through. This is particularly common with Ruger single action (SA) revolvers, but applies to most guns with wooden grip panels.

6. Get permission to dry fire the gun and check the trigger pull. Dry firing will not hurt most centerfire handguns, but it is still a good idea to use snap caps to protect the firing pin.
Whatever the trigger pull weight, it should be consistent from shot to shot. If it feels like a stock factory trigger (too heavy with some creep), fine, you can get it adjusted later. If it feels crisp and breaks at 2.5-3 pounds it has probably been worked on or adjusted. This is great if done properly, as it will save you some money, but make sure that the piece will not jar off.
To test this, get permission to bump the butt of the cocked handgun against some firm but padded surface. The gun should not fire. Push against the fully cocked hammer (if the pistol has one) with your thumb--it should not slip out of its notch; reject the gun if it does.

7. Check the inside of the barrel (and the chambers of a revolver's cylinder). If the barrel is dirty, ask that it be cleaned or for permission to clean it yourself. Do not oil the barrel after cleaning, and be suspicious of any barrel that has been oiled. The shine from the oil can hide minor barrel imperfections and pitting.
Once the barrel is reasonably clean, dry, and oil free, open the action or remove the barrel and look into it from both ends. Use a bore light. Hopefully it will be clean and bright with sharp rifling. A slight amount of rust or pitting inside the barrel (or the cylinder of a revolver) will ordinarily not seriously degrade the performance of a handgun, unless it is a target pistol, but it should lower the used price.


Specific things to check on used semi-automatic pistols

1. See that all of the controls work smoothly and with a reasonable amount of pressure. The safety should prevent the gun from firing (check by setting the safety and pulling the trigger normally). The slide lock should hold the slide open. The magazine release should release the magazine easily and yet hold it securely in place until it is pushed. If there is a grip safety the gun should not fire unless the grip safety fully depressed. If there is a magazine safety the gun should not fire unless the magazine is in place. Also, pulling the trigger should not fire the gun when the slide is held slightly out of battery.

2. Cycle an autoloader to verify that it operates smoothly and properly. See that the slide is tight and reasonably free of slop when closed and the pistol is cocked. (There is ordinarily some play or the gun will not function.) Verify that the pistol fieldstrips and reassembles correctly. Also see that the action has been kept reasonably clean for proper functioning.

3. Examine the slide (especially at the front and at the ejection port) and frame for excessive wear or cracks. Aluminum alloy frames are particularly susceptible to developing hairline cracks (and eventually failing) from extended use.

4. The cocked hammer or striker of a SA auto pistol should not drop when the slide is closed smartly. If you can make the hammer drop by letting the slide slam closed the gun is unsafe.

5. Check the magazine(s) for wear and condition. A proper magazine is very important to the functioning of an autoloading pistol. You want the original, name brand, magazine(s) in good condition. Inspect the feed lips for bends, cracks and wear, and insure that the seam at the back of the magazine is tight.
Also check the bottom of the magazine to insure that it has not been ejected from the pistol and allowed to fall to the ground. This looks great on TV or at action matches, but in real life it is very hard on magazines. Magazines are not expendable.


Specific things to check on used revolvers

1. Note the condition of the forcing cone at the back of the barrel. Slight erosion in this area, particularly on magnum revolvers, is not cause for concern, but it should not be seriously eroded. The more erosion you see the more the gun has been fired with heavy loads.

2. Check for cutting of the top strap at the cylinder gap, particularly with magnum revolvers. A little erosion here will not hurt, but excessive cutting is undesirable and indicates a lot of shooting with heavy loads, or a wide cylinder gap, or both.

3. To test the safety notch of a traditional single action revolver, pull firmly (about 8-10 pounds--this is not intended to be a test to destruction) on the trigger with the hammer in the safety notch to see if it can be easily forced. Put the revolver on half cock (the loading position) and repeat the test, applying about 5 pounds of pressure on the trigger. The hammer should not drop. This test does not apply to New Model (two screw) Ruger SA revolvers, as they use a different lockwork than traditional SA revolvers.

4. The cylinder of Colt double action revolvers should be completely tight when the trigger is pulled all the way back (the hand forces the cylinder against the bolt). S&W revolvers are never as tight as a Colt, but at least they should not rattle. Slight cylinder play is permissible with S&W DA (and also Ruger SA) revolvers.

5. Check the cylinder gap. It should not exceed .010", and .006" is ideal. Cock the gun to turn the cylinder so that every chamber, in turn, lines up with the barrel. The cylinder gap should remain constant.
Also, the cylinder should not slide back and forth appreciably on the cylinder pin. This is called endplay, and it generally increases with use.

6. The crane of a swing out cylinder DA revolver should fit tight to the frame (when closed) without any unsightly gaps. If it doesn't the crane may be sprung. When you wiggle the cylinder with your fingers the crane should barely move, if at all.
While you are at it, check to make sure that the ejector rod has not been bent. This is easy to see if you spin the cylinder, which should spin true.

7. Use you fingers or thumb to put a small amount of drag on the cylinder while you manually cock the revolver (single action mode). The cylinder bolt should click into the locking notches in the cylinder, locking the cylinder in place, at the end of each segment of cylinder rotation. If it does not, the gun is out of time and needs work. Then rapidly thumb cock the gun (don't "fan" a revolver)--the cylinder should not rotate past the proper locking notch. Also, the bolt should not be dragging on the cylinder as it turns. If it does it will leave a clearly visible wear line in the cylinder's finish.

8. Examine the sideplate of a DA revolver. If it has been improperly disassembled it may show pry marks at the edge or have been warped. The sideplate should fit flush and tight, without any gaps.

9. Check the tip of the firing pin, it should be smooth and rounded, not sharp or broken. The firing pin hole should not be chipped or burred.

 

How well do you know the person with the firearms? I'd make sure that they are not stolen. Gotta look out for ones self these days. +2 on Gunbroker price check.

 

Trust but verify, or how to check the condition of a used rifle
Before handling any firearm, always open the action and verify that both the chamber and the magazine are empty (remove the magazine if possible). Every time a firearm changes hands it should be cleared.

1. Look at the overall condition of the rifle. Notice the condition of the bluing, stock finish, checkering, butt plate or recoil pad, pistol grip cap, forearm tip, and so on. Check the crown at the muzzle end of the barrel. There should not be any obvious dings that might affect the accuracy of the rifle. Look for rust pitting on external metal surfaces. The rifle doesn't have to be perfect in every area, but it should show care rather than neglect. A rifle could be rough on the outside, yet perfect on the inside, but the chances are that an owner who didn't care for the external parts of a gun also didn't care for the parts you can't see.
Look carefully down the external length of the barrel to see that it looks straight and there are no subtle bulges. Don't buy any rifle if you suspect that the barrel has been bulged, no matter how slightly, or is not straight.


2. Ask the seller if the rifle's headspace has been checked recently. Don't be surprised if it hasn't been, since practically no one ever does. Headspace is a critical measurement, but in modern rifles from the major factories it is usually not a problem. In old, collector, military, or custom rifles, particularly if they headspace on the shoulder of a rimless cartridge and lock at the rear of the bolt, headspace is more likely to be a problem. A set of headspace gauges for the caliber of the rifle, which most buyers do not have, are required to check headspace. So it might be wise for the novice used gun buyer to stick with relatively modern (at least post WW II production) guns of major brand name.


3. Check the bedding of the barrel. The action, trigger guard, and forearm screws should be tight and the screw heads clean. The barrel band screws on traditional lever action carbines should be tight.
If the barrel of any rifle is supposed to be free floating you should be able to slip a strip of paper or a dollar bill between the forearm and the barrel. When you slide it up and down the barrel it shouldn't catch or drag on either side.
Many fine rifles have barrels that are solidly bedded in the stock. Check that the forearm to barrel fit is tight and even on both sides. You should not see the sort of gap necessary with free floating barrels. Any rifle that is unevenly inletted along the barrel channel or around the action should be rejected.


4. Check the condition of the stock. There should not be any splits or cracks in the stock or forearm. Pay particular attention to the top and trigger guard tang areas, where recoil can cause hairline cracks to develop. Reject any rifle that shows a crack or split in the stock. Verify that the sling swivels (if present) are tight. Scratches in the finish, worn checkering, and nicks in the stock will not affect the rifle's function, but should lower the price.
Also look for discolored wood at the back of the action, top and bottom. This is a sign of an excessively oiled rifle, and the oil has softened the wood. This is bad if it seems extensive and may eventually require replacement of the stock. Ask permission to remove the stock from the rifle to check this condition, or if hairline cracks are suspected.
Carefully check a synthetic stock for flex. It is very undesirable if you can warp the forearm so that it bears unevenly against one side of the barrel. One way to test for forearm flex is by assuming a "hasty sling" shooting position. Forearm flex is a common problem with synthetic stocks, and it definitely affects accuracy; it is one of the reasons I generally avoid synthetic stocks.


5. Check the action. Cycle it to verify that it operates smoothly and properly. See that it is tight and free of any looseness when closed and cocked. Make sure the safety works correctly--the rifle should not fire with the safety on, and should fire with it off. If the rifle has a hinged magazine floorplate, see that it opens correctly and closes securely, and that the latch has plenty of bite to keep it closed under recoil. See that the receiver screws in traditional lever actions are tight and not marred.
6. Inspect the bolt face for erosion and a clean firing pin hole, which should not be larger than necessary. Look at the body of the bolt, it should be smooth, rust free, and free of any marks that might indicate binding. Look at the wear on the locking lugs of a bolt action rifle--it should be even.



7. Get permission to dry fire the gun and check the trigger pull. Whatever the pull weight, it should be consistent from shot to shot. If it feels like a stock factory trigger (too heavy with some creep), fine, you can adjust it later. If it feels crisp and breaks at about 2.5-3 pounds it has probably been worked on or adjusted. This is even better if done properly, but make sure that it will not jar off. To test this, get permission to bump the butt of the cocked rifle against some hard but padded surface--a carpeted hardwood floor is good. If the rifle has a recoil pad there is little danger to the stock even if bumped on a hard surface like concrete. Likewise, the cocked firing pin or hammer should not drop when the action is closed smartly. It you can make the firing pin or hammer drop by bumping the rifle or closing the action briskly it is unsafe. Don't buy it!


8. Check the inside of the barrel. If it is dirty, ask that it be cleaned or for permission to clean it yourself. Do not oil the barrel after cleaning, and be suspicious of any barrel that has been oiled. The shine from the oil can hide minor barrel pitting and imperfections.
Once the barrel is reasonably clean, dry, and oil free, open the action or remove the bolt and look into the barrel from the muzzle end. Use a bore light. The lands at the muzzle should not look damaged or nicked--which can happen with careless cleaning from the front.
Look down the bore from the breech end. The lands right in front of the chamber end are the first to erode. Ideally they should be sharp and clean. It is not unusual if they show a slight frosting (early erosion), particularly on a high velocity rifle, but it should not extend more than about an inch up the bore, and should not look as if the edges of the lands are seriously rounded. A small amount of rust or pitting inside the barrel will ordinarily not seriously degrade accuracy in a rifle with a fairly fast twist, but it should lower the used price.

 

If you get the info from the seller, which I would, you can take that to your local PD/SO and they will more than likely be able to do a courtesy NCIC check on them - it may take a little time, though. We did them at the PD I used to work for and we usually turned them around in less than 48 hours.

I would also ask for pictures of the actual serial number markings on the guns themselves to be sure they haven't been tampered with.

Also, given that firearm sales have to be done through FFL's - you could have him take the guns to a FFL of your choosing that is local to him, have that FFL check the gun out and use that as insurance.

Just my $.02,

Fink

 

depending on the state they might not have to go through FFL. In texas you dont if its a individual selling to another individual

 

I did not know that - thanks for the info!

Fink

 

yup. thats the "gun show loophole" that you always hear the liberals talking about. Idaho was the same way. If im selling i just write out a bill of sale with the serial number and get the guys full name, verify it with his ID and get his drivers license number if he will let you, and have him sign it.

"I joe shmoe sell my remington 700 serial #453458 to Mr. john Doe on 19 aug. 2011" then both parties sign it.

 

Great info! I'm a newb when it comes to that stuff...clearly.

Fink

 

Alabama also, I'm not even sure you "have to have" a bill of sale here.