Londoners die for want of a gun

This could totally happen here, and guns wouldn't change anything but the body count. They might even prolong the event, turning rioting into warfare.

I'm not against gun ownership by any means. But guns are no more a panacea to what ails us than sitting around the campfire singing Kumbaya is.

 

Nobody seems to capture the concept that in an armed society, it is also entirely likely the rioters have firearms, too. Or means of easily obtaining them.

Armed Defender: Go away! I have a gun.

Rioter: Aw, shoot! All we brought were these rocks and Molotov Cocktails. Let's go home guys, riot's over. He's got a gun.

 

Subs for shitter reading

 

I for one do not get a woody thinking about using a gun. I haven't hit anyone with a closed fist since I was 7. But I have taken many hits and broken up many fights.

Survival is about preparedness. I live in Los Angeles and as such have water, food, and a gun that I am accurate and practised with.

Preparedness for riots is to learn how they work. Most of the mob is angry joiners on being pushed by one or more people "inciting riot". The incitors are never in the front. They are there to enjoy the power, not do the work. Target them and the group will not be able to be focused on you. Then the rest is a herd, scare them off and the herd will go elsewhere. If the incitors are gone, the riot will break up. Rooftops make great vantage points to see them coming and decide on a course of action if they do come to where your family and neighbors are.

Looters are another animal. They are yellow bellied scavengers, they won't go near a house when they hear the sound of a gun, there are easier places to hit.

Gun's won't stop a riot from starting, but they can change the path that the herd takes. I won't enjoy killing anyone but if it is a choice between a stampeding herd and my 2 1/2 year olds safety, the herd will be thinned coming towards my house.

I've thought of moving out of Los Angeles because of the gun control here. I would definitely leave a place like London. God gave us free will. How stupid is it to give up that free will to a government? They know more than God?

Anyone with enough intelligence and courage should be a knight or sheepdog. If you are lacking either then as a pawn you can hope you are not the one sacrificed for the larger game.

 

This ^

+1 for logic.

 

I'm hoping for the best, but I'm sitting in the path of Hurricane Irene. My emergency kit came in the mail yesterday, three 30 round PMAGS. They're loaded along with a couple of 20 rounders. Add my .40 and I'm good to go. I seriously doubt I'll need them and would hate it if I did, but I've got them ready along with my spare batteries, bottled water and canned food. You just never know...

 

You're missing a major point. People defending themselves / their lives are much more willing to fight and have much more to lose by not fighting than some rioters trying to loot a house, period. The person on the inside has every reason to fight back, because they have no idea what the rioters have in store. The rioters are looking to cause some mayhem, not get killed.

In short, the single best effect of a gun as a home defense measure is that most criminals - and I firmly believe that includes some rioters trying to bust down a door - aren't willing to be killed over what they're doing.

To expound upon my point, the thing is exactly that they could both have firearms. It makes the playing field level. It isn't "hey we're a group of 17-year-olds, lets go terrorize and beat this grandma, we're young and she's old, she has no chance." It becomes "hey, lets um... get in a firefight? And get shot at? Fuck this."

 

I think people are losing sight of the fact that despite a mob mentality, the people that join in this kind of stuff are the cockroaches that skuttle out when they see an opportunity to take things that don't belong to them and destroy things with little chance of repercussion.

This is true in Katrina, Rodney King, shoot, pretty much all major civil unrest. These jerks see an opportunity to commit crime without getting in trouble with the law.

Do you think that is somebody brave enough to engage in a fire fight or break into homes where they may be shot? Yeah, right.

 

You are focusing on home invasion , is that still relevant to the situation with the UK riots ?

 

It's true, I am. I don't know the situation, I just know if I were in London, my ass would be holed up in my house, hence my focus.

I mean, I'll also agree that armed citizens wouldn't help much with huge crowds in the streets, what are they supposed to do - go mowing people down?

 

Sums up my position on the original thread topic perfectly

 

Oz, do you live out in the countryside or in a city of ~ 10 milliion people. Nice pictures of your house. To understand this you have to imagine your house in the middle of Los Angeles.

If there is a Riot, you can't leave your house and leave town. There is a crowd of 500+ people burning all the homes, beating and or raping everyone in their path. The rioters are criminals with deadly intent.

Do you sit down, let them burn down your home with you and your familiy in it, or do you use a weapon and try to save the lives of your family and neighbors?

 

I don't live in the city and you missed my point , plus I don't have any pictures of my own house on this site

 

^^^^This +1 for you.. Thanks there is a overflow of no nuts here!!! Jim

 

Oz, is your point that you are thinking that the government is responsible for this? that civilians should not have guns because the government will protect them? If this is not your point please restate it.


It took the UK two days to bring most of the rioting and looting under control. It took Los Angeles 7 days.

Oz, if I was in the country I would walk off into the woods and be quiet. Picture yourself in the city, then form your opinion based on their situation, not yours.

 

It is all relevant. This is not a mob that used a surgical knife to just go after businesses. There are loft apartments with people that died above the businesses.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14436499

10:57 BST - Housing minister Grant Shapps says 100 families have been made homeless following the disturbances. He says he is looking at measures to prevent rioters from being given social housing.

 

My point is that the position in the OP suggests that if the populace of the UK was armed similar to the US , the riot would not have occured or escalated to the size that it did .

I do not subscribe to that notion .

Your opinion may differ .

 

How can this be the UK no freebees for the bad???????? Jim

 

I don't think it is a no nuts situation. I think it is a focus that is too narrow and people do not understand the devastation a mob like this creates.

It is much more comfortable to assume you could just walk out your front door, get in a car, and drive away. The assumption of you just hand them all of your possession and they won't harm you does not apply when you are surrounded by a mob of people that are angry.