What's your Religion?

Problem is, you seek a divine credit for things that nature simply produces just the way it is. You see beauty and your mind can't wrap around it and you assign other-worldly meaning and origin to it.

No matter how much you want it to be true, your god isn't anything more than primitive man's explanation for things science and logic explained later on.

You think its an insult to say man and ape descended from a common ancestor but saying man came from dirt and woman from the dirt man's rib is FAR MORE reasonable...............right?

You can't argue with fanatics who deny scientific fact. They drive trucks on concrete roads and use the internet.... to proclaim man's feeble science.

Like I said; I have no problem with people believing in middle eastern fairy tales. It's when they use said fairy tales (and yes, Jesus never existed, sorry...) to bash logical, rational thinking human beings, that's when I get angry.

But yeah, talking snakes and dirt people and fake fossils make way more sense.................right? I mean God said it, right?

 

Boy this topic seems to just go round and round--and no one has any irrefutable proof one way or the other.

Can't we agree that NONE of us really know for sure. We all think or believe we know (a lot of "experts" on both sides of the argument), but until we die, we are either just speculating or entrusting our beliefs in some variety of a divine faith. Again, our own individual belief systems are formed from our own life experiences, and no two are alike.

What makes complete sense to some seems impossible, improbable, or even naive to the other. This debate will never end--at least not until we all die. Either way, some of us are going to be shocked at the final outcome.

Of course, any of you who have been reincarnated and can remember their past lives, can you please share your experience.

 

Jesus never existed?

Will Durant (Historian): “That a few simple men should in one generation have invented so powerful and appealing a personality, so lofty an ethic and so inspiring a vision of human brotherhood, would be a miracle far more incredible than any recorded in the Gospels.”

Cornelius Tacitus, first-century Roman historian: “The name [Christian] is derived from Christ, whom the procurator Pontius Pilate had executed in the reign of Tiberius.”

Flavius Josephus, first-century Jewish historian, wrote of James, whom he identified as “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ.”

Suetonius and Pliny the Younger, other first-century Roman writers, also referred to Jesus

The New Encyclopædia Britannica: “These independent accounts prove that in ancient times even the opponents of Christianity never doubted the historicity of Jesus, which was disputed for the first time and on inadequate grounds at the end of the 18th, during the 19th, and at the beginning of the 20th centuries.”

The Roman and Jewish contemporaries of Jesus were certainly not friendly to Jesus, yet they never doubted his existence though they definitely argued his identity as God's son. This is historical fact. Perhaps inconvenient to some, but fact none the less.

As to scientific facts, proven science agrees with the Bible. Earlier in this thread I made mention of the water cycles and the fact that the earth was round being mentioned in the Bible far before what man considers to be advanced civilizations thought the earth was flat and that weather indicated their "gods'" (yes that is plural possessive) disapproval. Further, the nation of Israel was directed by the law covenant given to Moses to practice such things as burying waste outside of their camp and to quarantine individuals with leprosy at a time when the nations around them were using feces as salves. When you consider that the law was given to Israel in 1513 BCE, how do you explain an understanding of the principles of infectious disease and sanitation that were not applied or understood until centuries later? Oh, let me guess, someone just happened to evolve a superior mind to understand it. But wait, that would mean that some de-evolution was involved because mankind seems to have forgotten this for a time.

As to ascribing credit to nature rather than to a creator, when I see a complex process that is self-perpetuating, I do not assume that it "just came to be". It seems that mankind is in a hurry to get rid of the idea of a creator while there is ample evidence of it around us. So-called "simple cells" that were thought to be among the first living things to evolve have turned out to not be so simple after all. The cooperation/dependence of RNA and DNA with one another is impressive to say the least. Not to mention the other processes involved in such "simple" cells reproducing and simply functioning. We see an incredible eco-system here on this earth with so many different plants and animals being dependent on one another and some say that it just came into existence. We see a hunk of metal that has been machined to provide cylinder walls and yet another piece of metal that has intake and exhaust valves working in concert with a cam and say "someone designed that". Just because there are not tool marks as we know them on a tree, does not mean that someone with far greater knowledge and wisdom than we did not use "tools" that we cannot comprehend to create a universe that has physical laws that we can rely upon just as much as we can rely on a well built engine - indeed more so.

 

Ugly Kid Joe

 

I'm a horse, a catholic horse. Ya I have a bible and a 30-30. All you people don't under stand. Wilber help them they are zombies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

You can't stir up Canadians. It's a country filled with nice but cold people. They don't get excited over much.

Definitely 95% of Canadians don't take religion or belief in god very seriously either. One of Canada's most wonderful qualities. FSM bless Canada for it's irreligiosity.

PS: There is no god, tooth fairy or santa. Sorry :'(

 

Bull shit. I got money under my pillow from the tooth fairy and presents under the tree from santa claus.

 

So your parents must be Gods! And that would make you Jesus, our lord and savior!

 

What? Are you reading the same thread I am? The "bashing" here seems to be pretty one-sided.

But the universe came from nothing right? At one moment....nothing, then "poof" ........everything.....right?

 

but its more believable that some almighty being that always was and always will be said "poof"...nothing, then everything (albeit over the course of a "seven days").... right?




sorry... not following this thread much but saw that comment and had to point out that both sides of the story can be pretty unbelievable.

plus I got a new spoon...

 

I agree with you. Both sides can seem unbelievable, I accept my beliefs by faith. But you have to agree, if you've read this thread at all that more often than not the big bang is presented as fact and not theory.

 

so where did this god come from, who said poof and made it be? and then how did he just say poof and we all be. magic

 

I cannot say where God came from, but the evidence that he exists is there. Scientists do not fully understand gravity, but the evidence that gravity exists is there. Magic? No. 1000 years ago someone walking on the moon or orbiting the earth would have been viewed as magic. Today we understand it as science. It is arrogance to think that we (man) are the be all - end all because of scientific accomplishments. One thing that science has taught us over the centuries is just how much more there is to learn. If it has taken man so much time to just scratch the surface of scientific discovery with all of the technological tools at hand, just how likely is it that everything just "poof" sprang into existence by itself?

 

Where?

 

Sun worship

 

Wheres the evidence that god exists?

 

The same evidence you use to make a case that god exists can be used to say allah exists. Or Zeus, or Poseiden, or Krishna. We've invented thousands of gods. And the evidence of these gods shows that they all exist, none of them exist or in your case, only your god exists. How convenient.

 

First of all your line about science is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Scientists seek the truth and use empirical evidence to do so. If something is proven to be wrong, scientists accept it as such. Things that are explained scientifically, are understood quite well.

Second, science says doesn't say it was a "poof"...science says it all started with the big bang, and then it took billions of years to develop.

The Bible says it was a poof...and 6000 years later we have the world we currently live in.


And just as Junebug said, your argument concerning "evidence" of your "gods" existence can be used to support the existence of ALL of the thousands of "gods" that man has invented over the years. What evidence do you have to disprove ALL of those other gods?

Science doesn't aim to sway people one way or the other using false deities and propaganda...Scientists accept the results of their experiments whether it's what they expected or not.

 

How about natural laws? Care to make a moon shot without being able to rely on the laws of physics? To have a law you must have a law maker. How about the complexity of life? We do not doubt that if we see house or a car that someone built them. Why then is it so difficult to believe that there was a designer of life? Consider: to put a space station in orbit complex systems have to be put in place so that enough air, water and food are available to those stationed there. In order to provide these necessities, how many manufacturing facilities and how much waste is produced - some of which can only be stored. The earth provides for all of our needs and recycles its wastes without toxic byproducts. All of this without someone "resupplying" the earth from somewhere else. The energy from the sun is used by plants to convert light/heat energy to a form that can be used by animals and in turn by us. Someone was needed to design the International Space Station (which pales in size, scope and complexity to the earth) but no one was needed to design the earth?

Fulfilled prophecy also gives evidence of a creator. I am not talking about some vague ramblings from the likes of Nostradamus but detailed prophecy that was fulfilled. Just one example is that of the fall of Babylon. It was prophesied that the Israelite nation would be held captive for 70 years in Babylon. They were conquered by Babylon in 607 BCE. In 539 BCE the Medo-Persian empire conquered Babylon and in 537 BCE a decree was issued restoring the nation of Israel to its home. Not only was this 70 year time period foretold, but so was the name of the conqueror (Cyrus) and the manner in which the victory would be won (diverting the Euphrates river). Oh, yes, and that was foretold about 200 years before it occurred - over a century before Cyrus was born.

Regards,

 

really well explained. never looked at it like that.