What's your Religion?

...its amazing to see so many agnostic votes. i think most religions are created to control the minds of the followers. did u know some bishops got together and VOTED jesus to be a god? and if the faiths are so good, why was there so many missionaries that beat the fuck out of indigenous peoples if they didnt adopt their religion? look at the native americans, mexicans, even the philippines. those people are so into being catholic. why? because their ancestors were given the choice of converting or beaten nearly to death. i know i would definately pick converting even though i wouldnt like it. the missionaries do that to a few generations, and then there is no turning back. now THAT sounds pretty EVIL to me.....im just saying. did u know the islamic way is convert or die? and that its ok to cheat, lie, steal, and kill anyone thats non-islamic? but our fucking politicians are putting muslims in KEY positions of our government. we cant say they are going to plan anything until we have proof, because that would be "hate-speech." but if something does happen, its already too late. if the american constitution falls, there will not be a place in the world u will be safe. the reason why the rulers of the world dont fuck with the general population, is because the american super-power will stop them. what if hitler wasnt stopped? i need to stop.....

 

Derive - to receive or obtain from a source or origin.


Surely you do not mean that man is the source or origin of of natural laws? Man did not create gravity, light or nuclear physics did he? Man may have discovered these laws but he certainly is not their source.

I am not giving up on science. I actually enjoy science. I just do not agree that science precludes a creator.
Indeed, proven science points to a creator. There is a reason that it is the theory of evolution - it has not been proven. People can argue the open loop/closed loop issue of thermodynamics in evolution all they want, but the facts are that order tends to disorder unless acted on by an outside force. Cause and effect. The thought that all life just magically "happened" requires much more faith than what I believe.

At no time did I say that I could not fathom how life came to be so there must be a creator. What I do say is that the evidence points to a creator. Design indicates a designer, a building indicates a builder.

The prophecy I used is just one example. It is verifiable by secular sources and is detailed. Israel had no control over the fulfillment of this. The fact that Cyrus was named 200 years before the event and the strategy he used was also recorded at that time is not open to interpretation - it is historical fact. It is true that the victor records history - but in this case Israel was not the victor but the vanquished and would not have had the opportunity to control how this event was recorded. After this conquest by Babylon, Israel never achieved the power that it once had and in essence became a vassal state.

I do not claim that Jesus was the son of a god out of The God. As to whether someone else chooses to reach that same conclusion is of course, up to them. I am simply trying to clear up misconceptions and misrepresentations while making the case that Jesus did in fact exist. The secular references were in an answer to an earlier post stating that the Jesus of the Bible never existed. It is obvious from the quoted secular sources that the Jesus of the Bible did indeed exist. Considering that these were secular sources that opposed Jesus and the Christians in the first century, it is evident that they had no pro-Christian bias, but were simply recording the fact that he existed.

So many times the accuracy of the Bible has been called into question and has come through as being accurate. For example, at one point in time it was said that neither Pilate nor Belshazzar ever existed and were fictional characters in the Bible. In time archaeology (yes science) uncovered clear evidence that these individuals not only existed but that there positions were as described in the Bible.

Kind regards,

 

Bob started this thread, and we all know he enjoys watching his masterpieces flourish!

you too!..........people just won't hear what I say and only hear what they want......frustrating.

 

I've gotten some good info out of this thread, and read some great arguments for christians. As long as "that line" isn't crossed, they probably won't lock it.

 

Because man essentially told God to get lost in the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve chose to disobey God, in essence telling him "we (man) can make up our own minds as to what is right and wrong - we don't need you". God, in essence, said "OK, go right ahead - do your best/worst - here is how it is going to work out. I will eventually intervene and put things back to the way I intended, but the question of whose way is right has to be answered so I will let man make their case."

It has become increasingly obvious that mankind really has no idea how to run things. Every conceivable form of government/economy has been tried with the result of colossal failure. No government has been able to stop corruption or truly provide justice for all. Don't get me wrong, there have been noble attempts by genuine individuals to do so, but eventually greed for money or power corrupts.

That is the Cliff Notes version, but the basic answer is that man told God to get lost - we'll take it from here.

 

absolute power corrupts absolutely. thats the problem. there shouldnt be that much power for anyone. the more power, the more corruption. dictators are the worst because they have the most power. american government is divided as to keep the power distributed. but they are fighting for more and more power. when they can contol your health (obama care), ur slaved to take their orders....giving them more power and more corruption!

 

I agree completely that man has no idea how to run things, and I'm familiar with the story of the garden with the snake, etc, but I don't recall where god decided to just stop caring; if he did indeed intervene so often back then, where in the bible is it stated he got "fed up with it" and left us to our own ways? The overwhelming presence of god to the people who wrote the bible makes it seem even more like a hoax to me; where are examples of god's doing now? Sure...some christians like to give credit to the holy spirit for their job promotion or by someone surviving some miraculous car crash, but I see no "divine intervention" there, just someone getting what their hard work deserves or being just plain lucky.

 

jesus was a real person. he was VOTED to be a "god" in 325AD by all the western bishops. roman emperor constantine called the council of nicea, to vote.

he was crucified because he was a rebel trying to cause a rebellion between the jewish priests that sold out to the catholic church in rome. the romans only crucified people for rebellion against the empire.

 

id like to suggest that u read "The 12th Planet" by Zecharia Sitchin. its a book that explains the mesopotamian civilization, and how their historical tablets clear up the misunderstandings of the bible. not proving it right or wrong, but complimenting it, as to make sense of the illogical shit that was twisted by the "telephone" effect. u know, when u were a kid and u played telephone. misinterpretation of one text to another by the reader and writer.

 

Bad choice of words on my part. I meant to say without man putting what they find into some sort of verbal description we don't have laws that can be called natural laws. That physical properties exist doesn't show the existence of a creator.

 

Looked it up on Amazon...seems pretty wild! I may have to pick that up for some reading material once my classes are over. Until then, my brain is fried enough haha.

 

yea there's a dude that I went to high school with whose name is Jesus. He's definitely real

 

I could only agree with this statement on the notion that it is not siding with the church (not religion, but the church). Religion became just as corrupt and not having a clue on how to run things as soon as the church became involved. I'm somewhat of an Atheist, so I don't really count here I suppose. IMO opinion, anyone who says "run things IAW the church, it's the only righteous way for mankind" is just as wrong as anyone or anything.... Religion requires interpretation by mankind, that opens the door for corruption. Any government will fail as soon as it becomes corrupt, or as soon as the people question it, it's only a matter of time. The proof is in the history books, which is fact not opinion. I believe if you take away those two variables, any form of government can be successful, without god and religion. But corruption and greed is the human way, it'll never end, and all good things will become corrupt and fail over time.

I haven't read through this whole thread, very interesting what I've browsed so far.

 

He did not stop caring. He provided his son as a ransom for mankind and provided the Bible to let those of mankind that chose to be obedient to him know that he will intervene. True he has intervened in the past, but always with a purpose. That the Bible exists today after much effort to eradicate it (yes even by religious leaders that thought it was heresy to have the Bible in the common languages), is an indication that God indeed cares.

Consider, if tomorrow everyone in the world decided to live by Bible principles (I say Bible principles - not some theologian's dissertation on the Bible), what problems would we have? Think of just this one principle - Love your neighbor as yourself. This was not romantic love but principled love - looking out for their best interest. If everyone applied this we would have no wars, no car bombs, no murder. This is what Jesus taught. Sadly, Jesus teachings have been hijacked and perverted by religious leaders who take Jesus teachings and warp them into something they are not. Earlier in this thread the point has been made that religion has caused more wars than it has prevented. This statement is true - with nominal Christians often leading the charge - blessing soldiers on both sides to kill those of their same faith because of nationality or perceived superiority.

God does not miraculously intervene in human affairs as he did in the past because for now we have what we need in the complete Bible. In the past, miracles were necessary to show that he was the true God. These miracles were recorded in the Bible by eye witnesses. The fact that he intervened in the past does let us know that he is capable of doing so in the future as he has promised. The next time he intervenes it will be because he has determined that the time for mankind to rule himself is over - the experiment of human rule having failed.

That being said, can God subtly maneuver things to benefit us? I say yes. He may not part the Red Sea for us, but he can help us. Also, the Bible encourages industriousness. A person who applies that makes himself a valuable asset to his employer and will likely be rewarded for that effort. Is that direct intervention from God? No. But a blessing for applying a Bible principle? Yes. And finally, the Bible acknowledges that "Time and unforeseen occurrence befalls us all" - that can be for good or bad. We can be in the right place at the right time or the wrong place at the wrong time.

Regards,

 

This whole story all of you are calling the bible should be made into an action hero movie, like star wars or something. Sounds pretty far out there.

 

I appreciate your response docbrown...you provide interesting thoughts and facts. If everyone did love their neighbor as they did themselves, we'd surely be better off. I don't see that happening though, and that makes me wonder if we might be better off without religion. With a law system still in place - which, by the way, is what most people who commit crimes fear, not purgatory - we could still enforce some kind of rules among people. There would be less time spent in churches and in prayer and more on what will actually change this world. Think of the money spent on churches, prayer conferences, advertisements, etc...that alone would bail us out of our national debt! There wouldn't be religious fanatics, there wouldn't be wars in the middle east, etc. I'm rambling a bit here and it could easily be contradicted by saying we'd fight over something else (which is probably true), but it's an interesting thought to me.

 

Throwing a child into a burning furnace definitely qualifies as a problem with their gods being legitimate - at least to me anyway. The Bible says this was something that had not entered into God's heart and that he had never asked. And before anyone goes there - I do not believe in a burning hell where people are tormented forever. The Bible standard of justice was "eye for eye". To torment someone forever for a lifetime (of 70-80 years) of wickedness would not be just - the scale would not balance. In the Bible when judgment was passed on wicked ones by God, they were not destroyed in some long drawn out torture, but executed swiftly.

 

Infidel - someone without faith.

"Die Infidel!" - basically means "i kill u cause u dont have my religion"

 

its a trap!

 

Thank you for your kind words. Though we have differing views it is good that we can have a civil dialog. I agree with you that most people refrain from committing crimes because of fear of punishment rather than out of a desire to do what is right.

Interestingly the Bible indicates that the nations will turn on false religion and destroy it. Already in my lifetime I have seen a definite change in attitude toward religion of all kinds. No wonder when you have scandals of pedophile priests who used their positions to abuse young boys and girls. Add to that the televangelists who are more interested in money than actually teaching and helping people. The Bible says we received free so we should give free when it comes to teaching others about the Bible.

Only the progress of time will finally settle this discussion.