AR-15 BS Thread

Sure they can as long as you keep a light coat of lube on it but why do that? When it comes to priorities of work, weapons maintenance is first before anything else. That's what's going to keep you and your buddies alive so why would you want it in anything other than pristine operating condition?

 

For a serious use gun I would expect a more aggressive cleaning and maintenance schedule. By that I do NOT mean cleaning it to pass a white-glove military inspection. Picks, scrapers, and pipe cleaners do more harm than good. Many prior service people still have not figured out that what they were doing was busy work to break them down and make them part of a unit, not maintaining firearms.

If you have multiple guns and can dedicate one vetted gun to serious use and one to training then you're in a good spot. The training gun can go hundreds, if not thousands, of rounds without cleaning and only the occasional (relatively heavy) lube. Keep a spare bolt/carrier group with you as those are the parts most likely to fail, and if they do fail at the range drop in the new parts and drive on, sort out the details of the issue at home later.

 

I do as well. After having a BCG and buffer literally freeze in my rifle at the most in opportune time, I leave the heavy lubing to the desert lovers. Plus I look at it as bonding time with my girl.

 

<----not a carbon scraper.

 

Whenever we turn in our weapons to armory, it was advised that the bolt be completely dry because CLP will break down the carbon and finish if left on there for extended periods of time. I carry a bottle of CLP in my pogey pouch and lube up my bolt before a range session.

Also helps to carry a leather man mutli-tool so you can use it to scrape off carbon.

 

I keep reading back to your post and it keeps making less and less sense to me. Weapon's maintenance has nothing to do with team building. If that was my goal then there are a lot better and more creative ways then sitting around the bay bullshitting and cleaning. What it's doing is teaching them everything there is to know about their personal weapon, making them take ownership of it, and keep updating their running log of maintenance and services on it. If I had a cracked gas ring then I'd definitely like to find out about it before I actually had to use it for something serious.

Fire thousands of rounds without cleaning and you're going to have double-feeds from the extractor failing and probably other malfunctions. It's simple: a rifle is a machine; a tool box. Nothing more. When it's in the hands of a trained person then does it become a weapon and then it still only does what you tell it to so if you put garbage in, you're going to get garbage out. That being said, any machine will run more efficiently when cleaned and properly lubed; i.e. one drop of CLP on the bare metal parts of your bolt and carrier then spread across with your finger. Any more and it becomes a magnet for dirt, dust, sand, and carbon to cause even more stoppages.

We maintain our weapons because they're the tools of our trade. Even in the field or deployed the first priority of work is to clean your weapon before anything else because your life and your buddies lives depend on it. Also, you train like you fight to become familiar with your equipment and so that your reactions becomes muscle memory without the need for a deliberate decision-making process. Why would you want train with and become familiar on a weapon only to leave it behind for something else? It just doesn't make any sense.

 

I knew you were an 11 Bravo without looking at your profile. You talk just like a grunt and not a POG. HOOOOAH!

 

Close, man. Scout.

 

My friend growing up was a Scout. Mark Googins. He was about three sheets short of a pack but he was still my brother.

 

Institutional inertia is hard to overcome. and when someone's frame of reference is only based in said institution it's even harder.

Thousands of rounds will not induce doublefeeds. Doublefeeds are almost always caused by magazine failures. Thousands of rounds and proper lube the gun won't even notice.

Google Pat Rogers' Filthy 14 article. Or take a look at some of Mike Pannone's work re: intervals between cleaning.

Everyone has to make their own choices (well, everyone that's allowed to make their own choices) as to their cleaning interval, but the myth that the AR system needs to be squeaky clean and dry to run is well busted, and in fact can be counter to actual best-practices.

 

The Filthy 14 is an interesting article to read. I'd never take that dirty thing out on patrol but no one here said anything about the rifle being squeaky clean or dry. Wipe downs and minimal lubrication on only the bare metal of the bolt carrier is needed. This is taught by the Army Short Range Marksmanship school and not just some myth passed down from NCO to Joe.

I'm aware of doublefeeds being a magazine issue and that brings up the whole other issue of mag maintenance but what I'm talking about is the weapon failing to extract the round which, in my experience, has been from a dirty, over-lubed weapon gumming up the extractor.

Now, what I'm curious about is what your experience is in all this. You know where I got mine, where did you get yours?

 

Experience and perspective does not necessarily come from the battlefield, a good deal of knowledge on weapons performance, maintenance and development has come from the civilian sector, the service marksmanship teams, and recognized SME's. I remember reading a memo put out by the Marine Corps, telling units to stop taking weapons down to parade rest because many inexperienced marines were taking the bluing off their weapons my being too aggressive in their maintenance.

 

http://tacticalyellowvisor.net/14401/index.html

 

rob I hold your words in much higher regard than 99% of the people out there so please do not take offense to what I am about to say...

Maybe the difference is some of us trust/trusted our lives to our weapons while the civilian shooter will most likely NEVER have to worry about such things. You bring out a filthy AR on a patrol that I am leading, you are getting sent back with my foot in your ass and a page 11 in the least. I am not getting my ass shot off because you are too lazy to break the thing open and clean it. I don't know what people's agendas are but it is absolutely foolish to think maintenance and a clean rifle are a bad thing. I think a lot of anti piston AR sentiment matched with the need to defend one's personal choice of drive system has made people absolutely come out of their gords. Soldiers have died due to failures because of dirty unmaintained weapons, this is not speculation, this is fact. These are lessons learned and practiced since Vietnam. To turn your nose up at it is not just foolish but dangerous to the people who may rest their lives on you and your equipment.

ETA: Only someone who will never put their life on the line with a particular rifle would EVER run their rifle like yall are suggesting.

With that said, I just got my BCG cleaned and all perishable items in it removed and replaced. I am ready to see how she does.

 

^^^That too, is well said.

 

wow... all this cleaning makes me never EVER want to keep my shit on the dirty side... its pretty amazing both of the views on cleaning... i guess when it comes down to it... it seems almost more on the side of preference due to peoples variance on opinion...

 

rob_s, I checked out the tacticalyellowvisor.net link. I did like the article titled "An Unqualified Opinion . . ." because it sums up a lot the issues that comes with seeking advice on the internet and getting a lot of inexperienced opinions thrown your way. We're no different, the same happens in the military, even the Combat Arms side.

Civilain, LE, or not, if a good idea is a good idea then I'll use it regardless of where it comes from. It's like kinetik873 said, "Experience and perspective does not necessarily come from the battlefield . . ." and he's absolutely right. The battlefield and the military is not all there is but it's a big one. We put our weapons through their paces as part of our job and we find out what works, what doesn't, and what could possibly. In a nutshell, we experiment; whether it be with gear, kit setup, weapons, vehicles, etc. If it could work a little bit better, be a little more efficient, or be just a little more comfortable then we try it out. If the juice isn't worth the squeeze then we shelf it, if it does then we Charlie Mike.

Sleeper362 said it the best and really summed up the points I was trying to make. I understand that we use our weapons for two completely different reasons so, therefore, our maintenance schedules and procedures will be just as opposed. What chapped my ass on the whole thing is that in the bio on your website there was no prior military service listed yet you talk as if you know what and why we do what we do. From the comments about "many prior service people still [not figuring] out that what they were doing was busy work to break them down and make them part of a unit, not maintaining firearms" and "institutional inertia [being] hard to overcome. and when [their] frame of reference is only based in said institution it's even harder." The same can be said about someone that only has a civilian shooter or LE frame of reference. When you talk about using your weapon for "serious use" then maybe you can learn a thing or two from people that put it to "serious use" every single day.

 

after a while and some adjustment.... this is my best grouping... yes i know i have a long way to go... but ill take this for now... haha

 

Nice! What distance?