What's your opinion of ROTC cadets?

God damnit Chase. I wish I was flying back out to FLW just so I could punch you in the ear. Go beat your face with some grass....

 

I respect ROTC cadets. I respect you more because you don't try to claim more respect than you rate. Thread drfit - I bet you hear "I woulda joined but...." on campus all the time.

 

I hear that all the time from guys my age that didn't serve.

I wanted to join but......
I almost joined but......

My attitude is, Well you didn't so STFU.

I heard this the other day. This young kid that is in one of my classes said, "I want to join the Army but my parents won't let me.". I asked him how old he is and he said 23. I said, "You're 23 and you won't join because your parents won't let you?" "Well maybe it's best that you don't."

 

If you want to display the branch you want to serve, you are just showing respect to the branch. If you claim your bad ass because of it, your wrong. You need to actually be in the branch first.

Cadets honestly don't ourank an E-1 because an E-1 is acually in the military. The problem is that some Cadets think they do outrank enlisted. Don't be a douche and people will respect you. Realize that it is your time to learn and people will welcome you when you have an interest in there expertise. As a Cadet and when a 2Lt, you must learn from Senior Enlisted and not be afraid to lead when required. Enlisted in the AF learn more about the AF in Basic than Officers learn in Training in my Opinion. I have been through both. So don't correct people who "aren't following the rules" unless you know for a fact that is the rule; otherwise you will solidify most peoples opinion that you are an idiot and thats not what you want to do.

People who don't have much respect for 2Lt's need to grow up. You don't know who you are disrespecting. Some are kids who need guidence so they they can be better leaders, and some are great leaders out of the box. Many are prior NCO's to Senior NCO's who have led peole for a long time. Some however think they know it all because they have a bar on their sholder which isn't right. You can't judge by the rank, but only by actions.

When I was a 2Lt I laughed whhen I saw the reprisal of SSgts at me because I was a 2Lt. They didn't realize that I was a SSgt not to long prior. When they did, they acted differently and it made them look like hypocrites. It can't bother you too much to interfere with your job because your job isn't to make people like you. You do ned to earn respect, but people shouldn't lable you an idiot instantly...that said, people do make those lables to Cadets. Don't worry about it. You have the desire to serve your country. It's a selfless job and you should be proud.

 

This thread kind of surprised me at the strong opinions and that it was this hot of a topic. I didn't think this subject would warrant so much feedback.

I was in the Corps at A&M, which is the largest ROTC unit outside of the academies, and I don't remember one single person in my entire time there that thought they were some bad ass, or "out-ranked" anyone in the military. They strictly looked at it as one of many steps to becoming an officer...actually becoming a pilot was the #1 goal for most that I was there with. Everyone knew their place and knew they were not officially serving until commisioned. It's still a learning experience so why knock it.

I guess we should pick on Boy Scouts next because they wear a uniform too and are not in the military.

 

I come from the perspective of having been an ROTC cadet, having been an ROTC instructor and having had cadets in my units during times that I served as a battery commander, battalion executive officer and a battalion commander. During those times, I also had West Point Cadets filling the same roles in my units. Obviously, I also was a 2LT at one point.

I saw ROTC cadets and West Point cadets with equally bad attitudes and leadership styles. I also saw the same in officers assigned to my units and with whom I worked throughout my 26 years on active duty. Commissioning source made no difference - attitude, willingness to learn and inherent leadership abilities did.

In my experience, many units are poorly prepared for cadets sent to their units for developmental experiences. In effect, unit leaders set the cadets up for failure because they fail to establish an effective framework in which they can lead nor do they establish the expectations of they unit's NCOs and soldiers in relation to the cadets. There are specific things that cadets, not being commissioned officers, can and can not do. The time they spend in their units are meant to help them hone their leadership skills in a controlled yet real environment while providing officer mentors to help them grow personally and professionally. Those groundrules have to be communicated to all so that everyone understands what is and is not acceptable.

Officers are primarily generalists. They are leaders and decision-makers not subject matter experts in everything. That's where warrant officer, NCOs and soldiers enter into the equation. I hear a lot of soldiers saying they don't like their junior officer because they don't listen to them. My question is always: Is it that they don't listen or that they don't do what you want? These are two very different aspects. There are times when officers, and NCOs have the time to discuss and listen to their soldiers. There are times when they don't have that luxury.

Officers are paid to lead. One of the most difficult things for an officer to do is learn to trust his/her subordinates...just as it is a challange for soldiers and NCOs to learn to trust their officers. Trust is not one-sided and an officer charged with the success/failure of his/her unit - especially a newly commissioned officer - sometimes struggles to be able to "let go." Some officers never learn to do it...and they ultimately fail. The same thing happens with NCOs. Cadets thrown into uit leadership experiences are at a distinct disadvantage because they are being evaluated on their leaderhsip abilities yet have no time to gain or develop that trust factor. So, they typically default to a more autocratic style of leadership...a style that we all know isn't typically the most effective. So, we...all of us..enlisted, NCOs and officers...are ther to help them better understand and learn effective leadership styles. If we don't help that process as cadets...it's not going to be any better when they show up as lieutenants. In fact, it's going to be worse.

I'm always amused by comments from younger enlisted people who demand that 2LTs have to "earn their trust." Well, troop, it goes both ways. You have to prove to your young officers who are thrust into leadership positions that they can trust you, too. In reality, the UCMJ establishes that you MUST repsect their rank. Whether they ultimately earn your respect personally, is another matter. Nothing says you have to like your boss....but law says you have to obey his/her orders.

Good NCOs help to create good officers and good officers help to create good NCOs. Both have their roles and responsibilities - different and distinct. And, neither can be truly successful without the other. The overarching necessity in both officers and NCOs is a willingness to listen (when there is time), to seek guidance (when there is time) and to trust that each is capable of fulfilling their leaderhip roles.

My flame suit is on...just the ramblings of an old retired colonel.

 

Jesus Sir, where were you before I retired?

They should put this in FM 22-100.

.

 

Sorry, I have to really agree with arvizu9618 on this one. Prior enlisted know how things work on both sides. You can easily relate to them as well, which makes us more comfortable when working with O's. O's can toss orders out without knowing their effect down the chain. For us, usually the chiefs mess will take care of it, but things like this are not usually the case with priors. On top of that, every O that I am good friends with is a prior. Too many (academy) JO's are afraid to 'mingle' with E's as well. Not bashin on you Brunes, but in aviation, you'll see alot of this. Be open with your guys in the cockpit, start conversations, and don't be the pilot that plans out the GAR model before you even get downstairs, I still don't understand why some pilots plan out GAR without the crew... its pointless.

 

Thank you, Sir

 

It's all good here. I enjoy going to school and I know you will too.

Good luck to you

 

Thanks for the comments above! I've been retired for almost 8 years now so I sometimes feel like I'm an old guy preaching to the young kids.

In my retirement life I am the executive vice president for a two-year private college. I seek out our vets and encourage them to become engaged in the college and its activities. Vets bring a much needed maturity and set of world experiences to the classroom dynamic. Most institutions talk about diversity in terms of race, gender and sexual orientation - in my mind it also includes vets.

And, thanks for your Service!!

What was your MOS? I spent 13 years in artillery and then swapped to intel after going to language school to learn Arabic.

Mark

 

The only time I saw Cadets was when we were in Basic training. They basically followed around Drill Sargents & seemed to be just "observing" all the time. Seemed like cool guys....chatted with them a few times too. They were basicly newbs like me at the time but with a little better cushioned path ahead of them.

 

10th Mountain? I was at Drum last year with a group of college educators. It gave me a chance to get back onto a military base and took my academic vice president to give her some idea of what it means to be a soldier. Got her into the sim center so shoot some scenarios.

Don't be afraid of fitting into college. Seriously, they need your experience and world views....and your maturity!!

Good luck and let me know if I can be of assistance. I'm living just north of Scranton, PA.

Mark

 

Funny thing is, my wife is in a Navy Officer program that mimics our "Green to Gold" and I printed it out for her to read, she refuses to read it. She will for sure be a problem. I have yet to find a Navy leader that actually meets the standard!

 

i think at a normal college they are not as disciplined.
i go to a military school so everyone is in ROTC and everything is super structured, and believe most of us are pretty squared away with what we are doing

 

My perspective is your in the military, but not a Marine, Soldier, or Sailor.

 

I'd have to disagree. It really depends on the cadre. Of course, the cadets in a typical 4 year college don't live the same discipline on a daily basis that you do in a military school, but that has nothing to do with how they act or how disciplined they are as cadets. Set high standards, get high results...or get out of the program.

In actuality, I saw some junior officers who came out of the Academy or military colleges struggle a bit with the lifestyle outside of the academy walls where there was no 24 hour structured discipline.

 

^^^ This