What's your Religion?

Does it ??? This may sound funny, it's the first example that pops into my head, where exactly do the Neanderthals fit into it ?

 

Here, I googled it real quick, they called it a Hobbit, this is a page dedicated to it, but there was better info in the Nat Geo issue that debuted it's discovery, it was longer ago than i thought.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/flores.html

This particular one was found on an island, there were others found I want to say in India.

 

x2! I like to hear different points of view and when someone brings up points I haven't thought about it helps me discover more of what I believe. So... yeah I google jockey when there are good questions, so long as I feel they're worth the time

 

True, the Bible teaches us to forgive, but not to be foolish. Some might quote where Jesus said to turn the other cheek if slapped. If someone slaps you, it is not meant to cause serious harm, but to be an insult or embarrassment. The scriptures also indicate that we are to be obedient to the governments in existence so long as they do not contradict God's law. Those governments have the right to punish wrongdoers. Again, we reap what we sow. If someone were to commit a crime that merited the death penalty and later professed to become a christian, good for them. That does not mean that they should be exempt from punishment. If they have truly changed, they will have the hope of the resurrection.

Also, forgiveness was to be extended only to those that were truly sorry/repentant for what they had done, not those that were just pretending to be sorry. The Mosaic law did have provisions for a murderer - they were to be put to death. There were also provisions for causing accidental death. Additionally, there were punishments for fraud and theft.
Coming forward to the Christian congregation, a person who committed the kind of crimes you mention would be expelled from the congregation as a practicer of what is hurtful and left to the secular authorities to deal with. Thus, the person doing the kind of things you mention is by their repeated actions denying the Christ, who rather than taking a life, gave it back to some and holds out real life to the rest of us.

Bottom line is that a Christian is by definition a follower of Christ. Being imperfect, we all make mistakes, but a mistake is not something we repeat over and over again. It is an aberration. To hide behind the Christ but carry on a practice of wrongdoing would be what the scriptures call using our faith as a blind for badness - hiding behind our imperfections as an excuse to carry on vile conduct - and would give the lie to someone's claim of being a Christian.

 

And the Grand Canyon? Or how about plate tectonics? It's been proven that Africa and South America used to be connected. Tectonic plates move about as fast as your fingernails grow, 3-4 cm a year. So it'd take 30-40 years to move a foot, and 136,000 years to move a mile. At their closest points, Africa and South America about 2000 miles apart.

 

So you believe in natural selection but not evolution?

How exactly does the bible cover the creation of all species? Because god said "Let there be living creatures"? He also created Eve from a rib bone. You really believe that? And he created light and a few days later created the light source. Makes sense to me.

 

Why would mutations necessarily be a "loss" of information? And why do you say evolution has to "add" information to DNA? What would a *change* in DNA be? Would that not be evolution? A programmer evolves and refines his code. While he might add or subject from it, what would you consider a change in code? Change a 1 to a 0 and the outcome change. End result is different, same fundamental program, and it's not a change from 1 program to another is it (MS Word to Word Perfect)?

So you change 1 protein to another and now apes have less fur. Change another later on and they start to walk upright. Change another and.... Do that over millions of years and is it possible the Ape looks dramatically different from the original? Enough to think it's a different species (maybe not from a bird to a frog, but noticeably different)?

That's what I take from the theory of evolution. Small changes over millions of years have dramatic results. And what does the bible say about the fossils found that indicate evolution happened? Did God step in and let species die or change them to better survive?

 

That doesn't work because Hoosier is going to show how how the earth is only 4500 years old.

 

carrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrbon dating!

 

lol But I *like* messing with Ben, and his misguided beliefs.

 

I'll beat Hoosier to his evidence that that age of the world has something to do with the age of the Niagra Falls with some evidence he is wrong.



http://noanswersingenesis.org.au/henke_niagara_falls.htm

For years, young-Earth creationists (YECs) have misunderstood the origin and age of Niagara Falls. Some YECs actually promote the logical absurdity that because the Falls are less than 10,000 years old, the entire Earth must be too (Wysong, 1981, p. 175; Kent Hovind, refuted by Dave E. Matson). Daly (1972, chapter 10), Whitelaw (1983, p. 99), Whitelaw (1986, p. 133), and many other YECs argue that Niagara Falls is a "post-Flood" feature that is about 4,000 to 5,000 years old.

Hooiser really believes there is nothing that science can do to prove the erosion of the Niagra Falls took more than 4500 years, and therefore the earth is 4500 years old.

WOW

 

Mutation happens, there is no doubt of that. However, mutations usually have a negative impact rather than a positive impact. At best they are neutral. An albino rat snake, for instance, will generally be picked off much easier than his non-albino relatives. Even though a mutation has occurred, the snake is still a snake, not a platypus. As for fossil records that "prove" evolution, these are open to a great deal of interpretation. I have looked at a school text book that shows the supposed progression of evolution. From the picture that the text book showed, you would think that the fossils are all of an animal about the same size. When you look at the actual size comparison, it is obvious that the animals are nowhere near the same size (roughly comparing a house cat to a tiger to a bobcat - in that order).

Additionally, the pictures you see in textbooks with "cavemen", (insert neanderthal, etc here), are artist's conceptions of what these fossil reconstructions looked like. There is no way to know whether one species had more or less hair than the next.

When it comes to a protein changing, what is the cause that changed it? Why is it that RNA cannot reproduce without DNA and DNA cannot reproduce without RNA? Both DNA and RNA would have to come into existence at exactly the same time.

 

x2

 

Uggghhh.... Ok, look, science is ever evolving, just like the earth, because we're figuring it out and learning it as we go. No, it isn't perfect, we correct it when we learn it has taken a wrong turn.

Now think for a minute, when you really want to knock science. Don't go drive your car, put the computer down, and above all, most certainly don't run to the doctor or the hospital when you are dying.

Which also brings up another one of my points with the Bible. Why in the world does almost every single person that practices religion whether it be a little or a lot, when they have a medical condition that is about to take their life they run to medical science to be cured. Why don't they go forth with their natural life which any other time they would consider "God's plan" ????

Be careful how you answer that question, because you can't have both without being hypocritical. What do you trust, believe and have faith in the most, science or God's will ??? When you thump on the Bible, which do you want on your side more when you're diagnosed with Leukemia, or a heart condition, or kidney failure, and on and on ???

As strong as some people want to believe and preach, that example is in no way, shape or form being absurd.

 

Exactly. This is the same question I posed in the Creationism thread. Science has provided the world with an infinite number of medical and technological advances. What has religion given to the world aside from war?

 

secondly........ something that just came to mind. no evolution ? Soooo, we've always had computers ? we've always had cars ? We've always been as smart of a race as what we are ?

Basic example, but it's evolution nonetheless. We've evolved as people, our social structure, everything.

Sit around and don't do jack sh!t for a week, to a month, to a year, what happens to you ? What happens when you work out everyday ? Now keep up any of those routines through your lifetime, your children's and their children's... You don't think the effects on the body will enter into the genetic structure somehow ?

 

So you have a problem with the size differences in the fossils? That makes you think they are different species, and not one evolving into the other?

What do you think about humans then? We have some that are 3ft tall, some that are 7ft tall. Some are 90lbs, while a few top 1,000lbs. Are they not all the same species? Perhaps different races, but all still human?

Even today you have drastic variations in size. "Normal" sized dogs vs their mini versions. How did the miniature versions come into being? Selective breeding by the breeders, or god's hand? If you admit to selective breeding to get that result then you must admit to other genetic changes. They are not all negative "mutations" as you call them.

For example, the min pin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniature_Pinscher Looks they came along around 1919. Even if that date is a bit off, they haven't been here since the beginning and were "man-made" so to speak. What's negative about that "mutation"? (Aside from the annoying drop-kick dog outcome.)

 

Bingo !!! Black people and Asian people are not human ???

Why do people with darker skin pigment historically tend to originate from places with more heat and sun while lighter skin pigmented people tend to be from more northern regions ????

FYI adaptation IS evolution, however slight it may be

 

Who said you can't have science and religion? So if my wife is a surgeon, does that mean that she secretly is not a christian? Absurd!

 

It just means she only believes partially in the Bible. I'm Atheist/Agnostic as all get-out, I still go to church with my wife (when she makes me)... My wife is a Medical Dosimetrist, but she is still very dedicated to attending church when she can. We don't discuss my feelings about religion in our home. She's entitled to do what she wants.