By Popular Demand: Occupy Davis - The Truth

I'm not really sure how anyone can say definitively who was right or wrong in this one, even if you were there. Supporters of the protestors use the final few minutes of the clip to say they are right, so the police supporters show a few minutes more to make themselves look right. What might we all think if we got to see even more video?

I'm not taking sides on this one but I definitely have a few questions. For instance, why did the police resort to using pepper spray? Why was it necessary to have these students removed? Did the actions of the students warrant the use of violent force to force them to comply?

For those of you saying the protestors are lucky they weren't beaten with clubs, what country do you live in? You probably assume countries that allow that sort of behaviour are fun by savages so why are we lucky that our North American governments don't behave the same way? Can't we expect more diplomatic behaviour? If you think we live in suc great countries then you shouldn't say people are lucky because they weren't beaten publicly (for not really doing much of anything) by government agents. It's not written anywhere but I think that qualifies as a basic human right.

Though the protestors may have behaved in such a way that required their removal from the premises, did it really require pepper spray to get them to move? The police seemed to behave in a polite fashion in ordering the protestors to move but in my mind the next step isn't to burn their eyes with pepper spray. Couldn't the police have quietly and casually zip tied the protestors one by one (something the likely ended up doing anyway, after the spraying) and then hauled them off? The protestors definitely seem like they had their heads up their asses but I wouldn't have labelled them belligerent - meaning no physical threat to the police.

Let's all keep in mind that none of us here really knows what went on that day so stop with the name calling and taking sides and let's just all enjoy the photoshopped pictures that have resulted from it. I thought the spray on tan one was pretty funny.

 

You left one comparison out:

Identity of the individual based on what group he/she belongs to - Liberal
Identity of the individual based on the individual - Conservative

 

What would have happened if one of the police officers had tried to zip tie their hands to arrest them? would it have started a full riot? Pepper spray didn't require the use of physical force. Physical force could have resulted in a full on riot. I don't know if it was the right answer, i just know that you should never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. I use the term stupid because of the "F the police" chants and being stupid enough to complete surround the police.

 

This is all just opinion BS guys, there's no "definitive" answer here.

 

Sure this is. Conservatives are right and liberals are wrong.

 

If they did get violent then the police could have rightfully laid a beat down. Simple as that. I get the feeling you think I'm siding with the protestors. Trust me, I'm not. I'm just among the few willing to admit I don't really know who was right or wrong. I'm just asking questions.

 

lol

I know you were just sitting here waiting to use that!

 

Looks like the OWS protesters must have struck more of a nerve with the government than the tea partiers did. Kind of the same as Wiki leaks.

Funny how noone gives a shit about the 911 towers, alex jones and other conspiracy nuts.. but you definitely know when you hit a nerve with the government, they bring the heat!

 

I have a t-shirt I wear out to bars when I don't feel like needing a personality that says "Occupy Your Vagina."

Yep. It works.

Quoted for the good points that need to be read.

Yeah, but they didn't. They might have yelled some shit and generally acted like douchebags, but they didn't do anything violent. You can't arrest people for being douchebags. Nobody would ever go to Havasu then and Ed hardy would have gone out of business long ago.

Because using force to quell a non-violent protest against unarmed citizen is called tyranny, perhaps?

When you are dealing with unarmed protesters, as a peacekeeping force, it is your duty to MAINTAIN THE PEACE. Know what violates that? Pepper spraying unarmed people who may or may not have said something bad about your mom.

Now, when a protester hits an officer or picks up a brick you've got every right in the world to lay some smack.

You know the phrase "Sticks and stones may break my bones, etc." Seems that the police forgot the last part of that one.

True, but as industry became devalued through the course of American (and World) History via outsourcing and the production of cheaper resources we've essentially slipped back into the Malthusian Trap. That's a byproduct of capitalism in which the quest for ever-increasing profits outweighs the need for a strong domestic industry. Do we still need steel and cable and copper and infrastructure? Sure. But it's a helluva lot cheaper to get it from China or Vietnam or India where the depressed wages can at least provide for a cost of living.

I don't really give a shit about the college-aged kids who are bitching and moaning. They've got a point, but in the long run they are eventually going to come into a housing market that is ridiculously cheap that will offset their high student loan debts (comparatively). I feel for the mid-career individuals and families who had a bulk of their assets tied up in their homes and who are now facing a looming burden of retirement. These people are going to stay in the workforce much longer, and keep younger ideas and workers from gaining experience. Which is going to create a lag in world competitiveness.

At some point, the 1% (or whatever you want to call them) is going to have to come to the realization that unless their businesses are tied to emerging economies like India and Africa and South America that they are essentially suppressing the classes they need to consume their products and services.

 

Trolls tend to do that.

 

If all they did was chant things, then i would say they used excessive force. When they surrounded the police officers and threatened them, then their actions were justified IMO.

 

The way I see it is like getting tossed from a baseball game. You can get in the umps face all you want, until you bump him. (Or call him a cocksucker)

 

I think that this thread has run it's course being that some people can not have a civil debate without name calling or any other derogatory language therefore this is my last swipe at this. The bottom line is that as a whole the occupy student and others who support this movement are just looking for an easy route through life they don't want to work hard and earn decent degrees to earn a decent living. Example I would put money down that most of the kids are in some bull shit excuse for a major which requires as little as 5 hours a week of in class instruction. When they leave class they don't have to study the material very long or at all. There may be some legitimate reason's that a few of the people protesting are doing so, but they are so unorganized in trying to get their points across that they look like a bunch of lazy hippies just looking for a free ride to the big bucks which most people realizes that if you want money you must work for it.

Protesting is perfectly legal if you think something is wrong you must do something about it. Which is EXACTLY what these kids are doing, but they are going about it in the WORST way possible. The law enforcement officers did what they were told to do and they did it in a completely legal manner some may feel that they acted too harshly but the kid's had them surrounded, out numbered, and appeared to be pissed off it would have taken just one person to throw a punch at an officer, to push an officer, or even just throw something as small as a pebble at a law enforcement officer and the entire crowed could have then become enraged and completely rioted the Law Enforcement Officer injuring and possibly killing only god knows how many. To demand at the scene of arrest that an officer release his detanie is absolutely insane. There is a due process of judicial court which will decide whether that person who was charged with whatever crime that they may or may not have committed is guilty or not. The officers job out on the streets is to maintain an atmosphere of peace make sure that everyone out on the roads, in a store, in a bar, in a restaurant, in a car, anywhere that they have jurisdiction to enforce laws are abiding by this set code of laws; if an officer believes that the person in question is guilty he must have sufficient evidence to believe so and then the judicial process begins.

At the start the kids had a reason to be out there they were give ample time to vacate the premiss and to cease and desist their actions. They REFUSED to move so that the law enforcement officers at the scene may began the judicial process so that a court with a judge and a jury of their peers may determine whether the actions taken on that day by the person in question were legal or not, because they refused to move they were then interfering in a police investigation and were holding the police within their ring of students which is called false imprisonment, and is a felony.

The students started out on the right track but once the law enforcement officer's started doing their jobs and arresting people of question with enough evidence against them to do so the students didn't see it in the way that the law enforcement officer did and then the whole incident went down the way it did and now here we are.

 

Did anyone else notice how the protesters in the original video started out by attempting to block the police from leaving... then when they failed and the police left they cheered? How the hell can the students say that they won?

 

Here's the problem with this thread: You can't talk about the OWS and the TEA party movement without talking about politics. And politics is one of those nasty words that is not SUPPOSED to be discussed on TF.

See
http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/si...7179-tacomaworld-code-conduct.html#post218189

Now, the one thing we have all forgotten in this discussion is that we're all Tacoma owners. And that, at least, makes every one of us smart to some degree.