What's your Religion?

Good call

 

Dam, out of beer, down to vodka or tequilla

 

I could just as easily ask you how you could possibly believe in effect without a cause. I turn the door knob(cause) and the door opens(effect) - cause and effect. However, there is a "big bang"(effect) without a cause?

I find it interesting that when someone has faith (based on evidence - see my previous posts for specifics) they have been "indoctrinated" and are "unreasonable" but when someone accepts the dogmatic views of evolution they are "enlightened" and "reasonable". Double standard if I have ever seen one.

Not trying to be ugly in any way, and we will just have to agree to disagree.

Just my $.02 while I sip on a cold Framboise - I have recently discovered Belgian beer and I like!

 

Which begs what caused such a powerful creator.

If a complex universe can only be explained by a creator how can anyone believe he just became.

I'll be in Brussels Belgium for 3 days in February, Framboise, Krieks, and Gueuze will be top of the beer list.

 

Like I said before, I look forward to the answer to that question.

Enjoy the beers! I am not normally a big beer fan but this stuff is great! A bit pricey, but good stuff none the less. Have a fun trip.

 

What you say is true. To my knowledge (although I dont claim to be an expert) there is not a good explaination for the cause of the big bang however just because we currently dont know the cause doesnt mean there isnt one and it doesnt necessarily mean that it is your god pulling strings behind the curtain. It also flips back to you. If God is the cause for the big bang then what is the cause of God, because of this the arguement you bring up really is invalid since it goes both ways.

Secondly I do apologize. I do not know your personal history of how you got your faith so it wasnt fair of me to assume you were indocrinated with it as a child like most believers are and like I was so I shouldnt have made that statement. I accept evolution as true because it has met its burden of proof, creation or intelligent design has not. There is nothing wrong with thinking something is unreasonable if noone has proof or evidence of it. I also think the idea of Big Foot as unreasonable because I have been given no good reason to believe otherwise.

 

I did not take offense - no apology necessary. I was just pointing out an interesting preconception that many have regarding those that have faith. The Bible does not encourage blind faith but encourages us to test out the inspired expression (1 John 4:1 Acts 17:10 and Hebrews 11:1).

True, some today, when asked what they believe and why have no idea and this is sad. One should not base something as serious as belief in God on what someone else tells them - they should search for themselves.

As to God's having existed forever; that is certainly a difficult concept to grasp since as humans we have no real concept of eternity. However, to me the evidence is overwhelming that there is a creator. To someone else, the evidence may say something else. We both have made an informed decision on what the evidence states and it seems that though we both disagree, we both respect the other's opinion. In the end, that is really all we can do.

Kind regards.

 

According to Christian doctrine, being eternal means He had no beginning. There has never been a time when God did not exist or came into being. So there is nothing that would "cause God". We think of God as being outside of time. He sees the future just as He sees the present and past.

It couldn't apply to the universe as it is "in time". It would mean an infinite amount of time had passed to get us to this point in time.

 

So because christians believe that this god always existed, there is no need to wonder how such a powerful entity could be, even if this entity must be more complicated than anything that is too complicated to have evolved?

 

Holy shit this thread makes my head spin, maybe more so than the "Legalize It?" thread, but yet I can't seem to unsubscribe. Carry on!

^^^ Not necessarily a religious reference.

 

I already answered that. If the universe has always existed without beginning, that means an infinite amount of time has passed, which is a logical absurdity.

 

Never said that.

 

How can this all powerful entity exist if not created?

 

Like I said earlier, that is a question that the Bible does not answer. However, when the track record of the Bible is considered (fulfilled prophecy, solid principles to live by that have stood the test of time, and accuracy on scientific matters when it touches on them) I am convinced that it is the word of our creator. How he came about is not something that I can explain as I was not there.

Newton's first law briefly states that an object that is at rest will stay at rest unless an unbalanced force acts upon it. This law applies to our physical universe. However, the Bible describes God as a spirit so physical laws would not apply to him.

I can already hear the cries of "nice way to sidestep the issue", but, this is what the scriptures say. Again, what it boils down to is we each have to make a decision for ourselves.

 

The difference is that the Bible is specific and historically verifiable not once upon a time. Dates, people and events are verifiable. Indeed in previous posts there are examples where critics had called into question the existence of Pontius Pilate and Belshazzar but archeology verified their existence. No bigfoot, or phoenix and once "upon a time".

The men who wrote the Bible started about 1513 BCE with the last book being written around 100 CE. While they were not there for the creation of the universe, they were there for about 1600 years and the Bible indicates that they were inspired by God to write what they did. This could be compared to a secretary writing a letter for an executive - he speaks and she takes down what he says. His thoughts not hers. So, while they were not physically there, He was and he had recorded what we needed to know. It is interesting that over 1600 years, 40 or so men wrote 66 books of the Bible that are harmonious and hold to one theme - sounds like one "writer" to me.