ABS on this truck is dangerous...

$900 for (5) 255/85/16 KM2's


hahahahahahaha

 

Know what's even worse than ABS? Downshifting into 2nd on a downward slope at 60kph. My back end wagged like a dogs tail.

 

We get it, you don't believe us. I guess you haven't experienced it yourself.

But here's the thing: it is proven ABS increases stopping distance in snow. It is also proven that properly performed threshold braking is more effective than ABS. We are simply saying that on this truck, ABS is substantially worse than it "should" be.

I'm thinking of contacting Toyota but all I expect is a boilerplate response on how ABS is a safety system designed to prevent wheel lockup so the driver can avoid obstacles during a panic stop.

 

I'm not saying anyone's a noob. However, there are lot of people that are flat out dangerous on the roads, winter or not (I'm not saying you are). There are a lot of people that exaggerate, too (also not saying that's you). Just as an example, in the thread the other day about the seat belt buzzer someone was claiming the seat belt buzzer was too obnoxious while driving down the street at 5MPH house to house. The buzzer doesn't kick in until 10MPH. A meaningless deviation, but an example of "stretching the truth".

Deactivating a system isn't really the answer. We have a ton of people here that claim that Toyota's ABS system is "poorly designed" and deadly. If there's a flaw in the system, it doesn't make any sense to whine about it on the internet. Do something that gets results! There's enough here that if 75% filed complaints with Toyota and the NHTSA, they'd probably look into it. If it's a problem on the Tacoma, it's probably a problem on the FJ Cruiser, and the 4Runner. It's probably a problem with the whole product line, due to commonality of parts.

Honestly, I see two issues with the whole ordeal. First of all, there are millions of Tacomas on the road--with a good chunk of them in snow country. If this is the problem as bad as reported here, why isn't something said about it elsewhere? There have probably been several accidents involving Tacomas. If there was any suspicion of failed safety systems on the vehicle, it very likely would have been reported to the NHTSA already, who would have likely taken it very seriously.

I grew up in snow country, but moved out when I was 25. I've gone back and driven my truck through all kinds of snow storms for several years now. The only time I've had an issue with the ABS was on glare ice. It took an uncomfortable amount of time to stop, but I can't say with any certainty I would have stopped sooner without. I've had plenty of vehicles without ABS, and stopping in those conditions has always been a puckering affair.

When I had the DMV-1's on my truck during a road trip two years ago we got stuck in Vail a couple hours due to a snow storm. So, during that time we drove around the town to check it out. One some of the empty streets, I tested the tires out by stomping on the brakes in hard pack from 20-25MPH. The truck stopped without drama several times.

I don't off-road my truck like several here do, so I am not qualified to comment. However, with Toyota's catering to the off road community (roll-over sensor disable, and the 4Runner's off-road traction modes for example) they would likely be receptive to suggestions to prevent injury there. They would not want the publicity or lawsuit of an ABS-induced-death in any conditions.

 

I've experienced it, but only in conditions that I could not say with any certainty that not having ABS would have helped me at all.

You can threshhold brake in this truck and use the transmission (even automatic) to provide a lot of control in bad weather without getting into the ABS at all.

I use transmission braking down hill all the time in this truck, and it works very well.

ETA:Here are some links to get the ball rolling.

Here is the general link to filing a complaint with the NHTSA:
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

Here is the actual form for reporting a safety complaint for vehicles:
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/index.xhtml

Here's the number for Toyota customer service. I've talked to them about issues, and they are helpful:
800-331-4331

We can also draft a letter that we can all send to Toyota, here:
Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
19001 South Western Ave.
Dept. WC11
Torrance, CA 90501

Honestly, I'm on board with this and would be willing to help draft a form letter we could all just add our name and address to. I'll send one in, if there are people that would be willing to. I'm not joking--if it's as serious as everyone claims, I'll support it. If 50 people file a complaint with the NHTSA, I'll guarantee they will look at it seriously.

 

my abs is so sensitive on the passenger front wheel, that if i plug in that wheel, abs kicks in everytime no matter what. and im in the desert with no ice, but can feel you pain, so scared with brakes not working.

 

I just spent a few minutes using google and I can't find a single vehicle manufacturer not being complained about in the ABS area. Everyone thinks their vehicle model specifically has a problem. They don't. I looked up Ford F-150, Nissan, Honda, Chevrolet. Every forum has some thread complaining about "our ABS on this vehicle is dangerous"

ABS extends stopping time on loose or slippery surfaces. Everyone knows that, including the people who mandate it on new vehicles.

ABS greatly REDUCES stop time on paved roads, which just so happen to be where 95% of the driving is done. It saves lives.

Drive on Ice? Slow down. Snow? Slow down. Gravel roads? Slow down.

 

What'd I just say!?

 

True

 

You downshifted too far too fast I think. I use 3rd gear to keep the truck between 40-45MPH or so, if I remember correctly. I use 2nd gear up to about 25-30, though it's been a while since I've used 2nd downhill.

I've downshifted fast in a Camaro I owned years ago too far too fast on dry flat pavement and about lost it. The back end came loose and the engine went bonkers.

 

ABS's intended benefit is to allow steering control of the vehicle during panic braking .

I don't know what else to say , when I am using engine braking to keep from using my brakes on a snowy slope , down into 2nd , 25 kph , not breaking loose , and have to finally touch the brakes at the stop sign , and the ABS kicks on , starting me sliding , what am I supposed to be happy about ?

 

Driving on uncontaminated pavement is 80% of my driving, tops. And I live in one of the least snowiest regions of Canada.

I agree that ABS saves lives on dry pavement. Surely it has also cost lives in snow. On balance, I bet you're right and ABS comes out on top. That doesn't mean we should accept a system that is worse than it has to be in snow.

I do slow down on snow and ice. Your argument is if the ABS activates, I was simply going too fast. But given that "too fast" is very subjective and changes day to day, without us both being in the vehicle there is no way to tell who is right.

 

Nothing I and I don't think the vehicle manufacturers are asking anyone to be happy about anything. They acknowledge ABS is not ideal on ice.

I'm aiming this more at the people who are thinking about disabling their ABS. That just doesn't seem wise to me at all unless you include a switch that can turn it on and off. That makes sense.

Maybe I'm just coming at this from a different angle but look up the safety reports on the Tacoma. Due to the ABS system it stops significantly shorter than any other truck in it's class. That's what I'm happy about when I need it most, it will be there. Or, when the person who's about to hit me needs it most ... it will be there for them.

 

It was far icier than I had anticipated. I just shifted back up and all was good. At least I wasn't in 4WD otherwise I probably would have been off the road. The snow kept coming and then the MTZs really started to shine once again.

 

ABS doesn't not shorter stopping distance. It helps to steer during panic situation, meaning that you are rolling, meaning that you have less traction on road because your tires aren't rubbing, meaning that... your distance will be longer

Having that said, safety tests are made on dry pavements. I would like to see a safety tests on a mix ice/hard-packed snow. I'm sure that it will fail compared to conventionnal brakes.

 

Read the OP , this thread is about how ABS reacts on snow .

I agree a bypass switch is the way to go , off when you want it off , on the rest of the time .

 

And that's the key, finding the right speed for the conditions. Sometimes, there's just no "safe" speed, and ABS or no ABS will save you.

That same year we were playing in Vail, my wife and I went out in the evening to look at Christmas lights. The roads started to completely glaze over--I mean the type where tires locked stopped on a hill will get you sliding just because you're on the hill. I had my DMV-1's on at that time, and they did nothing.

We narrowly escaped getting hit by another car that had less traction than we did (no snow tires). Even at low speeds before ABS kicked in, there was nothing we could do.

So, we turned around and went home.

Those are the icing conditions I've had problems with ABS, and that's why I can't say with any certainty having the ABS disabled would have helped.

I stand by my suggestion--if it's a safety issue, submit it to the NHTSA and Toyota.

 

I'd wager most of the car companies have stacks and stacks of data on that already, but you'd probably have to be in the industry to find it.

I think it's either Porsche, or BMW that has testing grounds near Fairbanks, AK. A lot of other companies have far-north testing grounds as well. I think it's Mitsubishi or something that has that on some of their commercials.

 

Wrong.

ABS shortens stopping distance because the vast majority of drivers would just lock em up. The energy is completely on ABS vs Skidding. It also allows steering.

And for the last time, no one is saying ABS shortens stopping distance on ice or snow, It doesn't. Everyone acknowledges that.

 

If you want true traction on ice stud your tires. End of discussion.