If you had to pick: .45 or 9mm

I don't keep any of my guns loaded in my house. Hell, they aren't even condition 3.

 

Even if they aren't loaded in storage, you never engage a target with an unloaded gun.

You are basically bringing a bat to a gunfight.

 

.45 Glock ftw!!!!!!

 

And Joe Homeowner is going to be any better in his first real-world shooting stress encounter?

No about of range time can prepare you for what happens when someone is climbing through your window at 2am.

 

But my point is, you would think that the police would be better shots, since they are the ones that can carry guns anywhere. And I dont think anyone is dead nuts perfect @ 2a.m. when someone is crashing through their door unexpectedly.

 

Exactly...
And while at the range shooting at motionless pieces of paper, cops may not be as good as your typical enthusiast who spends 2 hours a week at the range... He has the benefit of real-life experience at shooting under pressure at a moving, human target, while being shot at.

I don't think anyone without LE/Military experience is going to do any better.

 

Good post.

I remember the first time I drew my gun and pointed it a person. My heart was racing, because I knew and fully understood that I might have to end someone's life- also the shit storm of legal issues that follow.

The guy shooting at a shoot-n-see target does not have that stress, it's fun.

 

What good is a gun if it's unloaded? I keep all mine loaded and ready. As far as heart racing etc... Well I've been there too. And of all crazy things, I called 911 to let them know someone had tried to open my back door while I was in my bathroom. They ran when my dogs barked as I was heading to the door. I 911 dispatcher asked if I wanted the police to come to my home and I said "NO" if they come back I will take care of things as i do have my gun in my hand. I then said I was calling to ask them to check the area in-case my neighbors house were being broken into. So of course about 10 minutes later I heard someone in back yard/porch area. I opened my door with my gun aimed and he's like Whoa! Whoa! I said Why did you come into my back yard after I just told the 911 dispatcher NO

 

A) Most cops NEVER have a shooting incident in their entire career. So where do they get that experience?

B) This is why you participate in IDPA and go to schools. They put you in those positions so you're training.

In a stressful situation, you'll never rise to the occasion, but revert to your level of training.

 

"A) Most cops NEVER have a shooting incident in their entire career."

True, the same can be said for private citizens too.

"B) This is why you participate in IDPA and go to schools. They put you in those positions so you're training."

True, so do military, law-enforcement, fire and EMS training programs.

"In a stressful situation, you'll never rise to the occasion, but revert to your level of training."

The first part of your statement is questionable. Not too long ago the local news reported that a 18-year old girl, at home alone with a baby, called 911 because two men were breaking into her house. She grabbed a gun and asked the dispatcher for permission to shoot the gun if the men attacked. The dispatcher said that she couldn't per se give permission to shoot someone but for the girl do what she needed to do. The girl shot the intruder.

Oh yes, she used a shotgun too.

I do agree with the second part of your statement about training. If you have received a good deal of high-level civilian firearms training and have maintained that training then, by all means, purchase the handgun you desire and consider yourself sufficiently trained to face most situations that you might encounter. However, most civilians don't have this training. I, myself, have had military, fire and EMS training and am probably calmer in an emergency situation than most civilians but since I retired and do not train constantly anymore I am far less able than those who are active.

Edit:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/okla-woman...perators-shoot/story?id=15285605#.T2dChREdP3w

 

Just because most cops do not have to shoot someone does not mean they don't have more experience then the average person in dealing with guns in life or death situations.

How many houses have you cleared with your weapon drawn looking for a burglar? How many felony warrants have you served and have found someone hiding in a closet and you have 1/2 a second to determine to shoot or not to shoot? How many foot chases have you done where the suspect is said to be armed? How many scuicidal subjects have you delt with that were armed?

^ more than I can count to ALL of these. EXPERIENCE can't be taught.
That experience is invaluble in dealing with a high stress situation like having to shoot someone.
Shooting skills are parishable. Just because you shoot an IDPA event every now and then or have taken a shooting school doesn't mean your ready to take on the world.

Are there slack-ass cops who only shoot 2x a year? Sure. Are there cops that put down thousands of rounds down range and compete in shooting events. Yep.

And as far as rising to the occasion, read a copy of American Hunter. They have a page in every issue called Armed Citizen, a page full of people who rose to the occasion to protect themself or family.

 

I admire that girl for standing her ground and the legal system for not hassling her. I live in a state that has just signed into law some clarifications regarding what a citizen can do if attacked by a criminal.

A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in a place where such person has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand such person's ground and meet force with force.

A person who uses force [in accordance with the law above] is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force

"criminal prosecution" includes arrest, detention in custody and charging or prosecution of the defendant.

 

You guys hear about that black kid trayvon that got shot? Alleged white guy went after him for no reason and he shot him with single 9mm dead. Besides the whole controversy.... I guess bullet placement is numero uno.

I think the shooter wasnt charged for some reason...stand your ground?

 

glock 17.

i seen it filed stripped in seconds.

5 pieces total.

 

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yeah this is a fail move

i'm not saying i'm out to "kill someone" but if you're breaking into my house the last thing i really wanna do is scare you off and then give you another chance to come back when i'm not home, instead i'll be standing at the top of the stairs to meet you with a hail of gunfire that you'll never see coming so i dont have to worry about you coming back to harm my family

 

We all know that the primary objective of a bullet is to kill or incapacitate its target. On this, the diameter of a bullet plays a significant role.

For me, a big bullet travelling at a moderate speed seems to have a better "stopping power" than to smaller bullet travelling at high speed - even with the same notional muzzle energy.

Compare between .45acp pistol and 9mm Luger cartridges. The 9mm ammo fires a .353in (9mm) diameter, 115 grain (7.45 g) jacketed bullet at approximately 1150 fps (350 mps) giving muzzle energy of 338 ft lb (458 joules).

Some .45 ACP service ammo (hardball, fires a .45in (11.5mm) diameter, 230 grain (14.9 g) bullet of 800 fps (243 mps) for327 ft lb (443 joules).

On the basis of muzzle energy it is claimed that the 9mm Luger is more powerful, yet in accurately documented firefights, the .45 ACP hardball has proved time and time again to be more effective at killing and incapacitating an opponents with fewer shots. Because "BIG HOLES LET IN A LOT OF AIR AND LET OUT A LOT OF BLOOD".

Any comments pls to start a new studies on this two most debated cartridges.

Thanks

 

Well we can do these scenarios all damn day. If you are going into a house and came around a corner with a shotgun aimed at you. You wouldn't know if it is loaded or not. Having the action cycled would definitely make you think twice about your next move.

NOW, if I was the homeowner and I KNEW the perp had a gun, then yes my chamber would already be loaded.

I just practice good gun safety by having all of my guns unloaded in the house. Even if they are in a safe.

And for less experienced shooters, they are more likely to hit something with a shotgun than a handgun that they may have fired only a handful of times.

 

I have had a bit of training and have put a bunch of rounds through a service .45 so that's my weapon of choice between the 9mm and .45. However, were I to have to pick one of the two for most civilians I'd probably go with the 9mm because of the magazine capacity. My .45 1911A1's clip held 7 rounds; my civilian Hi Power 9mm held 13.

A .45 doesn't have a whale of a lot of muzzle velocity either. I've fired many a round out of .45s and grease guns and it's sort of weird that you can actually see the bullets go down range if you pay attention. Sight a .45 in at 25 m and it's going to be OK out to about 50 m but is going to drop like a rock past that. The 9mm is a bit flatter-shooting and if it's not windy I can hit fairly well to 75 m if I really take my time from a prone position, but you probably are not going to be shooting at anyone in a "home defense" situation at that range.

At 25 m I can hit you with a shotgun with my eyes closed if you make any noise.

Edit: Actually, if I buy another semi-automatic handgun it will probably be a .40 but I'm also looking at a Ruger GP100, as I miss my old Security Six, which I really shouldn't have sold.

 

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