Could the Air Force guys help me here???

OK, OP... here's my opinion (try to ignore all the service in-fighting): I retired after 20+ yrs from the AF on 1 Jan 12. My last 5 yrs were spent as an IG Inspector, and also as a Career Assistance Advisor. Have no regrets...had a great career. My advice is that if you graduate college and have a degree in hand, do not go enlisted. You will be selling yourself short of your immediate earning potential and it will take years to make up the income differential. BTW, I was enlisted and a Senior NCO.

To me, it boils down to:

1) Why do you want to join the military?

2) Why do you want to join the AF vs. other services?

3) Why would you not join as an officer (better pay--both while active and retired) if given the opportunity?

4) As a college grad, what do you want to do in life--setting the military aside--and is there any option that the military currently has available that also helps fill that desire?

If I were you, I would consider all services--not just the AF--once you determine WHY you want to join the military in the first place. As far as career fields go, happiness can be found in anything you do but realize they each have their challenges, and everyone has their opinions--listen to many. No matter what job you have, nowadays it is likely you will be deployed, and in some cases, directly in the fight. If that's what you want, by all means, go for it. I could go on all day about the benefits of serving in the military and the USAF, but is it right for you?

Best of luck and would be happy to answer questions... just PM me.

 

Oh that definitely happens! Just something about driving around in a metal box with no AC in the heat of a Phoenix, AZ summer... It puts ya to sleep! When we are awake though, no topic goes untouched!

Oh, and I am an Avionics Specialist, not some knuckle dragging Crew Dawg!...

 

Andrew, I apologize if I got your blood boiling. It wasn't my intention. The OP was asking about the Air Force, jobs, etc, and you made it sound like the Flight Engineer was the reason they call those of us that wear green pajamas to work "zipper suited sun gods." I probably was a little too direct in calling you out and should have used a little more tact. You mentioned you hadn't graduated the FE program yet. We both know that in any job, not just yours or mine, that you think you know a lot when you graduate a basic course, but in time, you realize you knew very little. I bet you finished aircrew fundies and BFE and thought you knew a lot. Then you got to the E-3 specific stuff and wow, you had a lot to learn. Thats normal. STAN EVAL guys will tell you they are still learning stuff. It was probably the same when you were awarded your 3 level in your previous medical AFSC, and then did your OJT.

Yes, I know all engineers carry a Dash 1, both on the E-3 and the C-130. The engineer on the E-3 may run the throttles. Read my initial comment and you'll see I never said they didn't. I just said they were "allowed to manipulate the controls." I don't need the Tech Order to know what the FE is responsible for on either airplane.

Sorry for sidetracking the thread ya'll. Now that Andrew and I have made up, back on topic!

 

Well... You are zipper suits, and seem to like the sun... As for gods... I've known a pilot or two to think that... Haha!

All I know is that if you squawk Code 3 and don't do what I tell you to when I get on the comm, your jet just just went to the bottom of my give a shit list... Haha! Even worse is if I tell a pilot to do something and they lie to me about it... There are ways to tell, and if I find out, so does everyone else...

 

Ryan, yeah you had my blood boiling alittle bit.... i guess i was pitching my job alittle too much. Yes, made it to the ride before my check ride, and was washed out of the flying training program, not for academic reasons. Yeah i understand how new aircrew have the zipper suited son god attitude....i'll admit to that.

I got accepted to retain into 1C1, just waiting my class date.

Thanks for clearing that up, i'll pull back calling you a douche...

 

Just curious, how did you manage to even get in the FE program? The OP is looking for a flying job and pitching it seems fruitless as its my understanding you need a maintenance (of some sort) background to even get in. When you said you were medical before, that definitely was the first time I had heard of that. When I went through BLM, there was no such thing as aircrew fundamentals and there was zero non-prior service Flight Engineer students there. Could be different in the 130 world.

ATC is no joke either. You have to know as much about flying, weather, etc as pilots and navigators besides physically manipulating flight controls. The work load is completely dependent on location. Obviously a controller at Andrews AFB is much more task saturated than one at Holloman. At least there is a good paying civilian equivalent to ATC and the military trains the majority of civis doing the job.

OP, if you are looking for a flying job and haven't finished college just yet, I would highly recommend looking into being either a Loadmaster or a Boom Operator. Both jobs only require a specific ASVAB score and lots of guys that are non-prior service chose this route. Once qualified and off into the real Air Force, you are lumped together with pilots, navigators, ABMs, and other non-rated flying billets, and are treated accordingly. Pick just about any cargo or refueler type aircraft and there will be either a Loadmaster or a Boom Operator. There is certainly job security in both of these jobs as they are on an array of aircraft and (for the most part) are not being replaced by automation. I was a Loady when enlisted and there may be a boomer present. Feel free to ask any questions about being a Loadmaster. It was an amazing job and although I still am a crew member in a C-130, I envy them still.

Especially their view



Heres a few videos I recorded on my last flight as a Loadmaster with a helmet cam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c20TeVesvE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ3Xgnv8Kqo

And a long video of a week of jump practice with the Navy SEALS that my crew recorded a few years ago (hence the video quality).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-w97eW6zcI

 

Ryan, i wrote a bad ass waiver and its the cronic crital job.... they were only taking maintainers, but it are really hurting now. They still arnt taking engineers from basic though...

Very nice video's. C130's are bad ass... i flew from andrews to nashville in a 130 ...loved it.

 

Gotchya. Figured there was some other variable in there for you to have gone to the course. So I'm assuming you graduated BFE and were awarded basic wings? Are you authorized to continue to wear them or are they "temporarily awarded" at BFE graduation and only preeminent after a specified amount of time?

Is ATC tech school in OKC or elsewhere?

 

Man, being color deficient sucks! ask me how I know.

 

I'll bite.

How?

 

Well man im Security Forces and I love it but I will say if you want to be state side all the time its not the job for you.

 

When I enlisted in 2000, my first job was Security Forces. I checked IDs at the gate and watched airplanes taxi around the flight line for 5 years before cross training.

Just curious why you love it? Are you doing LE or Security? Maybe your experience was different than mine....

 

Have to scores to cross train; however failed both the plate test coming in and just recently boomed the green portion of the newer color test on the PC. I've been told that I'd have a better chance getting a waiver had I been in a flying billet then trying to get my foot in the door. I work with a lot of prior Talon loads talking 5k hour guys and besides their backs going out at or around 15 yrs they really seem to like the j.o.b. I like the unit I'm in now, it's just frustrating having the scores just not the physical capability.

 

My wings were "temporarily awarded"... i had aircrew fundys, and BFE at lackland, then to tinker for IQT, they just changed it to being CMR right after MQT, i washed out right before my check ride last december. Had 68.5 flying hours over 8to flights. Had an evaluator that didnt believe medics should be on the flight deck. I actually pcsd here with another medic friend and he did the same thing to.. we had words, and long story short hand a flight evauation board removing me from the program.... once my AFSC changed to 9A0 i had to remove my wings. I gave AFPC a wish list last month and got approved for 1C1, just waiting now to get my 1042 back and then i'll get a class date. Its down in kessiler.

 

Sorry to hear that man. I would highly recommend taking the test again. Its all about who is administering the medical tests. Every flyer will tell you what a bitch the depth perception test is but we all seem to pass it year after year.

I know old beat up Loadmasters that are flying with hearing aids. HEARING AIDS. The vibration + the noise of a C-130, even with double hearing protection and you're guaranteed to leave with at least 10% disability. Obviously you don't pass a hearing test if you're wearing hearing aids. Obviously he's on a waiver. I have pilot and nav buddies that have all kinds of issues. Probably more waivers than not.

Who told you to stop trying? Don't listen to them. Apply for the waiver. Redo the test. Then reapply for the waiver. You've got nothing to lose. And if you're successful, you will cross train into one of the most rewarding enlisted jobs in the Air Force, regardless whether your back goes out from lifting, pushing, and crawling underneath/around anything smaller than a firetruck as you chain it to the floor or rig a parachute on it.

 

True statement, you can get a waiver for just about anything.

 

... ^^^ ... Oh yes, anyone around aircraft (and weaponry) is going to have hearing problems with a 10% minimum.

IMO ... Tinnitus is much worse than a hearing loss and you will get that around very loud sounds too.

Just completed a 2 part class at the VA on "How to Deal With Tinnitus" ...
.

 

ALawrence...

With all due respect dude, you have nearly zero experience yet talk like you have worn a bag for years.

Ryans comments were spot on. As to what the mission of the AF is, being on GAYWACS is a small (and currently insignificant) part of that mission. You really want to see the current AF mission, get on a cargo airplane, tanker, or helicopter (for enlisted types).

I have spent 16 years as a enlisted flyer on both the C-130 and the HH-60G Pave Hawk. 12 years as a Loadmaster and the past 4 as a aerial gunner. If I could do all over again, I would have done the gunner thing first, had some fun and then went cargo. Being on the Herk was a blast. My squadron is what made it fun. Helo's are fun but you do not go anywhere..except the range and the desert.

I would recommend anyone wanting enlisted aircrew, look at the C-17 first, then maybe the C-5 or KC-10. My last choice would be a FE on a Huey and with the AWACS running a very close to second. I flew on an AWACS during a Southern Watch mission back in 1997..and it was the MOST boring flight I have ever been on..EVER. We flew in circles for 12 hours...at the end of it, I want to kill someone.

To ANYONE considering the service...get an EDUCATION first. Also, consider the Reserves or Guard. You can serve and have a life without being active duty's bitch.

 

I still maintain that the only way to know the AF mission is to be an aircraft mechanic, because simply put, regardless of what the current objective is, it won't happen without a maintainer...

I will second Taco Gunner's point about education. Get as much as you can before you come in, and when you are in, use every resource available to continue that education.

If you wanna be an officer, try enlisted first for a few years... that way you can see all the officers appointed over you, and all the douchey things they do, and when you get your commision you can be the opposite of them... haha!

 

I'm civilian but if you want a job after the military do aircraft maintenance officer. I work with tons of retired air force crew chiefs