how to air condition my shop

I honestly doubt that you will be able to maintain the use of your garage and make it an indoor room

I'd suggest getting a portable HVAC unit to use in your garage space

 

Ya, kinda sounds like the same system, just different way to go about it. Like I said, no HOA here, but the Boro I live in takes care of it. Like we have no parking on my side of street, and only parking allowed on other side between 6am-2am, no parking in yards, etc... everyone has driveways. I can't blame you guys for wanting to live in a nice area. Exact reason I got out of the city! I take care of my shit, I expect my neighbors to do the same.

 

Ha....it's not the difficulty. In the same way that some are unwilling to chop theuir cab mounts, I am unwilling to cut through the brick walls of my brand new house

If I just have a to drill a litle hole I'm alright, but cutting out a window unit sized portion makes me feel queasy lol.

Yep my old one had a private marina, two private boat launches, and boat storage for only $25 a month.

Are the potable ones you speak of the style similar to this?
http://www.lowes.com/pd_367199-37610-GL-PAC-08E4_4294749561+5003701_4294937087_?productId=3652%20601&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentUR%20L=%2Fpl_200%2B400_4294749561%2B5003701_4294937087_%20%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&facetInfo=$%20200%20-%20$400

Yeah it's all just rolling in there somehow I guess. We lived in an unincorporated community so it had no local enforcement of anything. HOA was all we had.

My wife watches house hunters as well. The HOA's you hear about there are different than what John and I are talking about. The ones they mention on there are for upscale condos and apartments. They include use of all the pools and amenities of the apartment complex, as well as pay for landscaping trash pickup, etc. Those are the really high ones you hear on the show, like $200 a month or more.

The ones we are talking about amount to about a buck a day and are just to prevent neighbors from making....questionable aesthetic decisions.

 

Ya, maybe thats the HOA fees I hear. I don't really pay attention untill she says look at this place!

Ya, it's amazing to me what people do to a house, if somehow not regulated. WTF are they thinking!.

 

sorry i didnt read all the posts but how about a portable a/c unit with a duct leading to the attic, then join it up with an existing duct outside, or if you dont care just leave it to the attic, will cost

1. the a/c unit
2. cut a hole in your ceiling and seal.

i did this sort of with a hole leading out of a window, but figure you said hoa's not happy bout that sorta thing.
and dunno how cold it is for winter, but a space heater

 

Where does the condensation go? up into the attic?

Quite cold here in the winter too. Desert climate. Space heater will be fine for that.

 

I think in portable units, the condensation gets collected in the unit itself, in a bin of sorts, that needs to be emptied. The part that vents outside, just blows the hot air coming off of it outside. Have you ever used a dehumidifier? Similar to that, except cools.

 

Ah....okay well if it's thats the case I'd much rather run an exhaust duct up into the attic of the shop than cut through the exterior wall. I wouldn't mind emptying the condensation bin.

I've just heard that those things don't work worth a crap. Have they gotten better with time?

 

Can't answer that, but I would guess its better than nothing. Guess depends on size of area your trying to cool too. Might be something you might have to leave on to be effective.

 

It's about 250 square feet so nothing huge.

 

Many HOA boards look upon themselves as a mini-government, and in some ways it is.
HOA for individual homes are generally only there to ensure that the neighborhood is maintained in a consistent manner, which helps everyone by supporting property values and keeping the neighborhood from going to shit.
With an HOA, you don't get "that guy" with the front yard overgrown with weeds, his last 6 cars parked on what was once the lawn, and oil spots on the street and down the gutter from him working on his POS.

And individual home HOAs are normally not that big of an expense... maybe $25-$100/mo. The more expensive ones will generally be private, gated communities where the HOA has to maintain the streets and parkways.

Condo HOAs can be expensive. Mine is $300 (which is on the low side for condo HOAs), but I don't have to carry full insurance. My homeowners' policy is basically a renters' policy (but a lower rate). I only need to cover my contents and liability for the interior. The HOA insures the building, and they handle all landscaping, fence repairs, roofing, driveways and parking, painting, the complex's pool and hot tub, termite removal, etc...

We had a board member a few years ago who was the stereotypical "busybody" and was always sticking her nose into the residents' business.
We slapped her down a couple of times when she presented herself as a board member and got into an argument with a resident over how the resident was raising her kids. Right in front of the resident, we told her "No! You can't fucking tell this lady how to raise her kids!"
Next board meeting we voted to remove her from the board.

 

Its worth a shot, easy solution if it works out. And alot less work to keep cool.

 

OK I've read most of the posts in this thread. I'm a little baffled as to why running one duct to an existing attached insulated room is such a big deal. I live in an area of Florida where during the 50' all the houses were built with tiny attached uninsulated garages. 90% of them have all been completely enclosed and used as living areas. What is the big concern?

 

It's not just an "exhaust" like a swamp cooler.
It's a heat exchanger just like the one in your Tacoma.

The system compresses refrigerant, which gets hot, and runs it through the condensor (the outside unit).
A fan blows air through that, which cools the refrigerant.
The refrigerant then goes to the evaporator (the inside unit) where it is allowed to expand. When it expands, it gets cold, and a fan pushes hot interior air through it, which cools the air and transfers the heat into the refrigerant.

The cooler the outside unit is, the more effective it will work. If the refrigerant is 200 degrees when compressed and the outside unit is 150 degrees, the refrigerant is going to be 50 degrees hotter going into the evaporator than it will on a day when the outside unit is only 100 degrees.

Putting the outside unit in the attic is bad on two accounts:
1 - All of the heat (plus the heat from efficiency losses) drawn from the garage is transferred into the attic, which in turn "cooks" the area below it
2 - The hotter the attic gets, the less effective the unit becomes.

How cold does your Tacoma AC blow on a 60 degree day compared to a 100 degree day?

 

The condensation comes from the evaporator coil, which is the interior unit.
I would imagine the portable units would have a drain pain that you would have to dump every now and then... more frequently in high humidity.
The drain pan should have a float valve that would shut the unit down when the pan needs to be dumped.

My central AC unit is upstairs and shares a drain with the water heater blow-off.
The thing got plugged a few years ago.

I managed to get it blown clear, and while in there, we replaced the furnace and AC coil.

I added a float switch so if the line ever plugs again, it will shut the compressor down, but it will keep the blower running to attempt to dry the coil to prevent mold.

After it plugged a 2nd time, I'm now in the habit of running drain opener down the line once every couple of months, and once every 6 months I blast the water heater blow-off.

 

I get it now, I just grew up in the city, where pretty much anything was ok. These things where not really enforced. With that being said my family and myself have always taken care of our property, but when I had my house in the city, I lived next door to a building inspector, so I had never had to worry about being "checked up on" on anything I wanted to do to my house. It's hard for me to accept someone saying what I can /can not do to my house. Even though I would never do anything that looks like shit, I hate the questioning.

That being said, when I 1st moved into my house now, the crazy bitch who lived there before me, had a sun-setter awning on the front porch, instead of putting a real roof over the porch. So I was taking the awning off, and sure enough the code enforcement officer pulls up. He said to me what kind of work you doing, so I just said just taking this awning off. And so he said, "oh, you don't need a permit for that" I said "I know". ... Now obvioulsy when I put on a roof over my front porch, I got a permit for no hassel, but I sure as hell was not used to being asked what I was doing. LOL.

 

Think thats a little different situation. People do that around here to attached garages also. But, it gets changed completely into a room, garage door removed, wall put up, etc... So in that case, it almost becomes like an addition on the house. Will never be used again as a garage.

 

Why the hell would I have my AC on when it's 60 degrees? That's parka weather! I don't turn the truck AC on unless it's over 90.

All kidding aside thanks for helping me understand the unit Rich.

 

The garage was not designed or built to proper codes for a "living space"
They lack insulation, drainage, vapor barriers, rodent control, elevation above grade, etc....

There are also electrical codes that vary depending on the intended use.
A "garage" only needs one 15a circuit.
A living space needs light switches at the doorways, and properly installed electrical outlets every X feet along all walls (X defined by local codes, normally 6-12ft.)


It IS possible to legally convert a garage into a living space, but it is not cheap, so it is not normally done. 90% of garage conversions are illegal.

Now, that differs from a "Man Cave".
That might be used for occupancy, but it is not really a "living space"... it is no different than an enclosed patio, and code would treat it the same way. The main issue is connecting the garage to the home's living areas.
You don't want the home getting gassed from a leaking fuel tank or vehicle exhaust.

 

It's not just the car parked in the garage they are worried about, your gas furnace or water heater is located in the garage, that too is a potential CO hazard.

When dealing with furnaces, the combustion air used to burn the gas has to be separated completely from the air in the living space. If you run a heating duct into the garage where the furnace is, you no longer have separate combustion air.

You can also build a cabinet around the furnace or water heater if it's in the garage, seal it up, then add combustion air intake vents from the attic space, or from outside. Then you could have a heat register installed in the former garage.

There is also a firewall (plywood) separating a garage from the house. Any HVAC plumbing that goes through the wall into the house is supposed to be metal, not flex duct, for fire resistance.

Technically, I believe it's still a garage until the garage door is removed.

Not certain on this, but I would think the right way to do it if you want to keep the garage door (I would. It's a shop.) is to put in a separate source of heat/cooling for the new "shop". They make "ductless split" systems that will function as a heat pump and AC unit. No combustion that way to worry about.