IT BS thread

haha, where would you recommend I start learning about all that? Books, sites etc, if you don't mind me asking.

 

Books work well for the most part, but reality is you need to get some equipment and start playing with it. Hands on is the best way to learn IMO.

 

If Petzold makes a book, get that. He makes the best books.
Dietel is good runner up.

Personally I would almost avoid .NET and go for HTML/5. .NET is being phased out. It will still be around, but you may end up acting as maintenance for existing projects.

 

Same here. I prefer tp stay in the network and only do some program troubleshooting.

 

Thanks for the tips, will be browsing Amazon tonight.

 

Is it just me or is the IT area on this forum full of guys asking for help?

 

Eh, lots of car guys don't know jack about computers. So they come here and ask for help...

They know us nerds also like nice trucks

 

Ironically I'm not positive most of them know jack about trucks either.

This! Lots and lots of this!

 

I don't think anyone will argue against that point!

 

Why do you say .net is being phased out? C# has increased in popularity every year since it was introduced.

HTML 5 is fine if you want to develop web pages or guis but I wouldn't consider it a programming language (nor would it pay like knowledge in a programming language would). It would still require some programming language knowledge to go with it to do anything a company would consider useful (Java, .net, javascript).

Eduardo:
The most popular languages out there (in order of popularity) are C, java, C++, Objective C and C#. If you're only interested in developing iPhone apps or Mac development, Objective C would be the choice but I wouldn't bother otherwise. Java allows you to develop android apps plus you can do work beyond mobile development if you so desire. I manage a software project for the Department of Defense and I'll tell you I couldn't care less about HTML 5. The software my team works with includes C (legacy code), Java and some Flex development for GUIs.

 

It's a DoD job and there's no Ada?

 

No. Ada hasn't been used for some time for general purpose software. Most of the legacy code I see is C or C++ (dating back to 1997). It's probably still used in real-time programming (e.g. rockets, fly-by-wire).

 

For those interested in mobile development, I've been using Titanium (http://www.appcelerator.com/) for over a year now. You write javascript code using the Titanium libraries and when you compile the javascript it writes native code. So if your target is Android, it will write native code, Java. If your target is iOS, it will write native code, Objective-C.

The cool thing is 80% of the javascript code you write will work for both Android and iOS. The remaining 20% of code will be something like

PHP:

if (Ti.Platform.iOS)
{
    //Do stuff for iOS devices
}
else
{
    //Do stuff for android (or you can add another if for like blackberry
}


 

Do you find you need to do much hand tweaking with Titanium?

 

sorry, I did some reading this morning and it looks like my information is a few months out of date I was told by an MS employee that new dev on .NET was being halted and they were hoping XAML/HTML 5 was going to take over for Win8. However, the release of WinRT clearly proves me wrong.

Just because it's popular doesn't make it a solid choice.

I know this isn't the best example because C# can be thought of as more of a 'core' language (and yes, solid), so it's not relative to the same issues as what I'd think of as a 'supportive' language, but Silverlight was popular. Now it's dying slowly.

I'm just trying to state a generalized point, not singling out C#

I wouldn't lump Java with .NET because you are comparing a standalone language with a library. Even though it's a large library, C++ and C don't need .NET to operate.

If I had to plan a roadmap of learning, I would start with C and C++.
At this point I would have recommended Windows API, but that's going to be a weird area until the Windows 8 scenario gets sorted out fully... I think. Instead I'd focus on developing a Unix UI in Gnome or KDE?
I'd follow with web development (HTML, CSS, and JavaScript)

An alternative path would involve Java.

I may just be old school in my thinking, but I didn't list C# as a backbone because I think C++ is still a viable language, and it provides a better foundation. You can learn C# from C++ knowledge, and a C++ coder is going to have a better respect for memory, plus better understanding of garbage collectors and their limitations.

 

The only things I ran into tweaking wise between the two was design elements. Everything is pretty straight forward. Titanium is free and open source so give it a try. I wrote two tutorials for a web site using Titanium and got some really good feed back from them.

This first one: http://mobile.tutsplus.com/tutorials/appcelerator/titanium-user-authentication/ runs through settings up a MySQL database and creating a PHP file that will query the database for a user login system. The GUI itself, written using Titanium, was pretty straight forward. Two text fields and a login button.

This second tutorial: http://mobile.tutsplus.com/tutorials/appcelerator/titanium-mobile-build-a-pizza-ordering-app/ I wanted to do something a little more real world so I took the idea of I believe the pizza hut app and kind of copied it. Mine wasn't as involved, but its a really good way to get an idea of the capabilities of Titanium

 

I would understand that silverlight would die out with the adoption of HTML5 since it offers many of the features that silverlight brings. However, I can't see HTML5 and javascript as a valid replacement for C#.

I wasn't really lumping them in together. When I speak of .Net I mean more than just the runtime library. I'm referring to the framework and any language that can use it whether it be C#, Visual Basic.net or C++ with managed extensions.

I was just saying that with any client side, you're going to need to understand something to program the server side whether that be java or something like the .net languages. For web-based programming, I'd much prefer C# over C or C++. My first choice would be Java-based since it's platform independent (Unix, Linux or Windows).

I don't disagree with your reasoning here. My computer science schooling was primarily with C++. I also did some Windows programming with Borland Builder.

 

Yeah, Java is platform independent, but from what I remember, it was always such a dog of a language. You have to have the JRE, wait for it to launch, and finally your app launches which looks like it came from the early 90s unless you took significant time changing all the colors and such. As it runs it feels kinda slow and you get a feeling that even though your program does what it needed to, you will be too bored to actually use it. Plus the code deliverables doesn't feel real to me. I'm thinking it's because the JRE is the solid piece to me, and you just have some fluffy text documents.

C++ (before and after .NET - yes there was a time in the long long ago you coded without .NET, insert old guy icon here) always felt like you were the master, you were a virtual smith forging your code, and once you were complete, you had a mighty weapon ready for battle while the Java guy 'hunts for batteries'. When Visual Studio came out, you felt like someone handed you the keys to the Death Star, only they had it complete and there wasn't some Tatooine dork going to mess up your plans.
Even with the other .NET stuff, it always felt 'real' and meaningful.

Again, this might just be me getting old while the world moves on without me. I know some really good Java programs that seem to work pretty good.


I loved C# (except for all the early changes and new school books coming out every other week), but I wouldn't have it be the first thing to learn since it's an auto tranny Ferrari. Kids need to start with their old man's stick shift truck , i.e. something like C++, that gives them appreciation for memory management so they don't run around with memory leaks and bloated code, hoping the garbage collector saves them.

 

Well, they say Java is platform independent, but it really depends on what you are doing. Thankfully I never really had to get into it, but I worked closely with some guys that were building a suite of utilities/libraries that needed to be platform independent and they spent about 80% of their time dealing with differences between platforms. It used to be somewhat of a dog, but not so much now.

I personally didn't like C or C++ unless working on an embedded platform. I do think it is a good tool for learning how computers work, with a stint in assembly beforehand to understand what is happening at the lowest level. It seems to be rarely used anymore unless you're doing embedded code, or Objective-C if you are working on iOS.

Java and .NET are good to get into to understand OO concepts and use of frameworks and libraries, spending your time actually creating value instead of chasing down memory issues like in C++ (but C++ helps teach you to not be wasteful). Most of my programming was done in Borland Delphi, which was basically Object Pascal with a bunch of libraries of pre-built objects. With Delphi you could compile a native Windows application to a single executable binary and run it from a floppy disk (I actually did that for a diagnostic utility once). It was great for doing powerful applications in an object-oriented language and had a tight and fast compiler. You did have to pay attention to memory management (destroy your objects cleanly or be cursed with the week-long memory leak hunt). Microsoft hired the creator of Delphi to create their .NET libraries and C#, so we began to drift over to C# over time.

I actually used Smalltalk in one job, something I had read about in school but didn't realize anyone actually used. Go figure. I wouldn't recommend it, though, it was crazy.

We're now in a brave new world where we have all sorts of internet-connected devices, and phones are more powerful than the early PC's I programmed on. The cloud is here. Now applications are split between what runs server-side in the cloud and what runs locally in the browser, and effective communication between client and cloud. The problem has been the sophistication and compatibility of browsers, requiring plug-ins for a richer user experience. Adobe FLEX and the Flash plug-in are the prime examples here. But, not all devices and browsers support those plug-ins. Now HTML5 is aimed at standardizing this and enabling that richer user experience, only requiring that your browser is HTML5 compliant. If I were just getting into it, I would focus on this type of architecture -- this is how the bulk of applications will be delivered in the future, and a lot of existing business applications with fat clients or poor web-based interfaces will be moving this direction as well. My bet is that will be where most of the money is. Or, specializing in embedded systems and sticking to C/C++ is a good bet if you are a REALLY good programmer and understand hardware well.

My 2 cents anyway.

 

The thing about assembler is if you need it, write your program in C then use the compiler's output. You might need to go back and hand code some parts but it's way faster than doing the whole thing by hand.