tx pro baja lift vibe?

so if toyota is not going to sell the TX baja parts seperately, what do the TX baja owners do when they need a new shock? buy a new truck? no. there will be a way to get all those parts.

 

I guess with a TX Baja VIN number, the same way they order the Trail Team FJ rims

 

It will be the same as the X-Runner.. provide VIN.

Frank

 

You'll have to have a VIN from a Baja to get any of the special parts , same as the Trail Teams edition up here

 

Even if they don't restrict sales, remember spares pricing has ~300% markup built-in, so these "special" Bilsteins will be priced as much as Icons or Kings.

 

How can there be this much argument over this topic? It is what it is: A highly marked up dealer package that will provide a slightly increased ride height and perhaps a smoother ride on rutted forest service/desert roads.

Is that a problem? Not really. Can you get a lot more offroad bang for your buck through other methods? Yes. Is that what every Baja buyer wants? Only if they're extremely confused.

If dudes are informed and want to pay for the thing, let 'em. Personally I prefer having a one off truck you can't get from a dealer lot or anywhere else. But that's me.

 

In the U.S., any modification will void the warranty for any component that fails due to the modification. I have seen warranty denied on transmission failures due to slightly oversized tires, all drivetrain component warranty repairs denied due to a lift, electrical system failures denied warranty due to an aftermarket radio installation, engine failures denied warranty due to any number of modifications, and I could go on.

Warranty cannot be denied for identical component replacement with aftermarket components as long as the aftermarket component meets or exceeds the factory specifications, and the aftermarket part is not responsible for the failure.

 

But will it do any sweet jumps?

 

One thing's for sure: the Baja package will be a better deal than the $2000 dealer-preinstalled spacer lifts we sometimes come across in showrooms.

 

I don't know about jumps, but it will do a sweet jump.

 

No, not by law - of course if your dealer feeds you a line of shit and you accept it, then yes. The law clearly states that the failure must be proven to be due to the aftermarket components. Suggesting a link doesn't prove anything. Their was a major class action lawsuit fought over this and the manufacturers lost big time!

Lots of dealerships go out of their way to screw their customers. The cases you listed above are just dealers screwing ignorant people - doesn't make it the law. Doesn't make it so that people that know better are going to put up with it.


David

 

All well and good on paper, but here's the thing:

If you parade Magnusson-Moss in front of your dealer, he's going to say "your x caused y to fail, and we can prove it."

And you're going to say "No it didn't, and I can prove it."

And he's going to say "Ok, go ahead. See you in small claims court. OR, if, when you bought the vehicle, you signed an arbitration clause (as is almost always the case), see you in arbitration."

Best case scenario: Massive headache and time sink for you to prove your case to an arbitrator. In all likelihood, you will lose the arbitration because such individuals have their services purchased wholesale by dealer networks and know who butters their bread.

Worst case scenario: You get the option to prove your Magnusson-Moss applicability in court, which will likely cost you more than your vehicle repair, making it a non-option. If it starts in small claims court and you win, the dealership may elevate it to whatever appeal level is applicable. After all, they have an attorney on retainer - they're paying him whether he works or not, so he might as well work. There's no cost difference to them. There is to you.

Magnusson-Moss is a nice idea, but it's not really enforceable. You're at the dealer's mercy for warranty work. This is why I consider warranties to not exist.

 

Uh no!

Mangusson-Moss explicitly states I don't have to prove shit. The manufacturer does. It is very enforceable - there was a major class action lawsuit filed and won in the '90's reinforcing all of those concepts. The manufacturers lost 100%. I won't be filing any piddling small claims court bull shit. My attorney will be handling everything and they will be happy to do so because they know we will be getting paid - attorney's fees are recoverable in MM.

The reality is I've never sued anyone, never had to - even dealing w/ a crooked as shit Dodge dealership that wanted to revoke my warranty for putting "mud tires" on my 4x4. Calmly insisting on speaking to a factory rep and standing my ground got everything corrected.

Truthfully, I find the whole discussion a bit ludicrous. The idea that manufacturers can drop your warranty for doing something just the slightest bit out of line - if they have that kind of power then they can do whatever they want (like voiding your warranty when you haven't done anything wrong). If they don't, then your fine, don't worry about it.

David

 

Point being: The dealer WILL make you receive a judgement in your favor before they do any work. They're saying your modification caused the problem. You're saying they're unrelated. Who resolves the dispute?

Qualifier to all this: *If* the dollar figure is large enough. If you're arguing over a $400 item they'll try to stonewall you a little bit to see if they can get you to go away easily. Then they'll give in to get you to go away a little less easily.

The manufacturer isn't really the issue. Historically Toyota customer service has been better than average. It's the dealership you gotta worry about.

If you're willing to invest the extra headache in following up on MagMoss, go for it. But if the $ figure gets big enough, a dealership *will* make you win the legal battle, if it even applies.

This is particularly cute. I wish the world was this cut and dried. We may be fine in *principle*, but how much bullshit will have to be waded to actually have the action taken that we're looking for?

Stonewalling and stalling are art forms in their own right.

 

Been there done that - you're wrong.

The dealerships will try and bully you to see if you're going to take it. I can recover 100% of the repair, plus legal costs, plus aggravation. The dealerships know that - they're just looking to see who will take the screwing. Make it clear it's not you and they will move on.

It's just like when the cops pull you over for speeding and ask if it's Ok to look in your car?

If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.

David

Edit - listed legal expenses twice....

 

Also will add that getting the factory involved usually ends the BS quick - the manufacturers will reign in the occaisonal "overzealous dealer" when they see you are serious.

David

 

I think we're talking about different things. Pray tell, how do you recover aggravation and time?

The monetary and material items are recoverable, sure, if you're willing to put enough effort into it, and if you can foot the costs on the front end.

Perhaps you have a good working relationship with your legal team and they'll handle the issue with agreed upon compensation to come from any judgement in your favor. Many may not have the option nor the resources to pursue that course of action.

What I'm getting at in the end here is: Having the appropriate action taken in a Magnusson Moss situation is either going to be a pain in the ass, or an expensive pain in the ass. It's not as simple as waving a text copy of the act at your service manager.

This is 100% true and why I typically contact the manufacturer before the dealer in most instances where I'm planning to allow the dealer to work on my vehicle. If the brass has already sent word down the pipe to "fucking handle it", there tends to be a lot less bullshit.

 

Time isn't recoverable in MM, aggravation is - there are specific punitive allowances for deliberate denial/delaying.

It isn't about having a cracker jack legal team, it's about standing up for your rights and making it clear you are going to fight it.

Dealerships don't get to make the final call over warranty work the factory does. A lot of dealerships will "pretend' like it's the factory denying you when in fact it's them. Get the factory involved and they cave.

Not going to argue about it any further, this discussion is almost as aggravating as the discussions w/ the Dodge dealership to fix the steering column position sensor. If you believe the dealership can screw you out of your warranty for the slightest infraction I'm fine with it.

Have a good evening.

David

 

Once you prove the deliberate obfuscation

True. That's not to say, however, they can't make it extremely inconvenient to get things done, even when approved/directed to so by ToMoCo. There are reports here of dealerships having provided misleading/false information to the manufacturer to slant the case away from warranty approval. Veracity? Unknown. But food for thought.

I am. This conversation has become as annoying as your fight with the Dodge dealership? So it was a big hassle and time waster for you? Did you recover your punitive allowances for the grief they gave you in eventually getting the repair covered?

It's really not an issue for me. The stuff I could get warrantied is stuff I'd rather upgrade anyway, so I'll save the time and hassle and just go straight to the higher-quality aftermarket component.

I don't believe they can screw me out of my warranty - but I do believe they can make it a royal pain in the ass to have your warranty benefits honored. Essentially, so do you - you said as much above in comparing the annoyance of this debate to the annoyance of dealing with the Dodge fellas. Quod erat demonstrandum

 

Saw a 2012 Red DC BAJA TX TRD today at my local dealership. Had to stop by and check it out. Not much more than I have on my 2011. Sticker price on it was $38,040.00. Worth it? If you don't want to put anything else on it. It did have BF Goodrich mudders on it. But I didn't care for the color IMO.