Churches tax free?

It's funny you say that again when I didn't tell you to 'believe' in anything but asked you to state some hard facts to back up your sweeping comments of all religions and tepid opinions. Psychologically you and I both know your reason for saying such a phrase (right you do believe in psychology?).

The truth is you and the OP didn't really want anyone to disagree with your opinions but I think you posted on the wrong public forum. You might have done better posting on the 'I hate my former religion' or the 'Let's get rid of the churches' forums where you would have been patted on the back and cheered for your views.

And I am glad you pointed out that you are an apostate with a grudge, everything you say in this post makes total sense now (using psychology again so as to not sound preachy for you). And why you refuse to acknowledge any positive points of religion...again (what does psychology say about avoidance, wait let me get out my psyche 101 book from freshman year).

Glad you found a great atheist who did some good in the world beyond living a self serving life. Let's list all the great countries who were founded on athiestic values and ideals while we're at it, oh ya there weren't any...but I can list some of the worst governments in history who were anti-religious, can you?

I completely disagree, not even slightly agree.

The money churches get through donations is the only subsidy they get when it refers to government. And 'individuals' not the government give these, and it's based on faith and their ideals in helping others. You say subsidy but it's really a donation isn't it? I mean you talk like it's a tax shelter or something but then again you don't really state any facts about it, just vague opinion lol. What are you even talking about welfare and benefits? Are you kidding? The only welfare and benefits that are a problem are the ones the government hands out in the billions to individuals. Man get your facts straight. In 2009 the US spent over 500 billion on welfare, you think churches being taxed would cover anywhere close to this? What universe do you live in?

The donations received by churches are very often done because the people giving cannot always donate things like time and energy, or in the case of many secular groups they pay a portion of their income or specific service offered by a church. The money most churches receive goes back into the economy one way or another through expansion, hiring clergy (whom usually make a pittance if anything at all since wage laws do not apply), buying goods, paying for services, upkeep, having a place to worship, etc (which ARE ALL TAXED!). That's why the entire premise of this post is so annoying, basically the few people shooting their mouths off against the tax free status of churches don't really have any numbers to back their opinions up. That's why I truly believe it's just an agenda of bitter apostates, people who just simply aren't religious (big deal) or and are completely uniformed.

And, Larry basically made you look like you didn't really have a clue to what you were talking about what churches and clergy should pay in taxes, I don't believe for second you knew the facts.

Finally, the last part of the your fact-less post is in regard to the biggest corporations paying all their taxes. Dude, where have you been the last few years. Have you not read any financial news, there are tons of fortune 500 corporations who haven't been paying dickall in taxes. From 2009-2011 26 different fortune 500 companies were found not to paying any federal income tax, that included GE and Duke energy. Do you know how much money these corporations make? It's the equivalent to the GDP of many countries, and again, you attack churches? It's fing laughable... seriously asinine.

 

So , are you suggesting that the majority of non religious people ARE living self serving lives ? and that great countries are founded on religion ?

 

RadSurfTaco:

Some words of advice. You are talking to Liberal atheists.
You will never win this fight. It doesn't matter what you say, whether you are correct or not. I would save yourself some grief and let them keep Crying about churches not paying taxes. Just my .02
Plus that long paragraph gave me a headache. I need to go to my porch now and

 

Excuse me Mr Broadbrush , I would like an answer to my query

 

Which one bud?

 

No, you are taking that out of context of several comments.

I was referring to the point of the people I quoted inability in admitting churches and clergy do good in the world both historically and currently, something that keeps being avoided.

Also, that the works of the religious has benefited them more than they can bring themselves to admit.

And, I asked them when was the last time you saw groups of atheists banding together to do charitable works (can you name some groups?), trying to show the correlation between the simple fact that there are churches feeding the poor, giving shelter to the needy, counseling the distressed daily...not once every few years or now and again when they can afford it, but daily. Every day. To not acknowledge that type of humanity for what is quite frankly lame and shows a bit of a lack of character (my opinion).

You can postulate the comment about countries to change the connotation but I said exactly what I meant, you don't need to distort it. Instead why don't you answer the question, since you took that by itself specifically to comment.

 

My question to Rad dude

 

I don't believe I did , it's exactly how you wrote it , I just quoted the portion I wanted to ask you about

 

Thanks bud, I got a few pm's saying the same thing. I don't blame people for not taking the time to post as to them this topic is a serious waste of space and time.

Then you got your answer lol. And you didn't answer my question.

Obviously you are taking it out of context, you can say you aren't but you just did (just because you quote a sentence doesn't mean you didn't take it out of context, go back and reread the posts in their order, maybe it's all the vertigo you're getting).

And the answer I just posted is the same and explains it again to you (just in less words).

 

No I don't think the majority of non religious people ARE living self serving lives. I have lots of good friends that are atheists (good guys) but I have never heard them crying about churches not paying taxes.

I thought this thread was about churches not paying taxes. I just know when I was a very young kid my family was homeless for a while and the local church helped us with shelter and food.
Its called a 501(c)3 corp.
That means the donations they make go back into the organization to fund things like helping people in need and programs. Thats why it is tax exempt. And it is donations from members. Not profits from goods or a product they made. Its a fundamental difference.
But its all good homie, most people don't understand that

 

I didn't get my answer . What question ?

I didn't take anything out of context , sorry

 

You didn't get the answer 'you wanted' because you created a question out of context. The explaination is still there, you just think it's different because 'you' postulated on a point of argument, again out of context. If you put it back in context of the thoughts before and that led up to the out of context comment, you get your answer.

And, I was the one who didn't get the answer which is still the same to you as it is to the person the response was meant. I look forward to your list.

 

wut

 

Amnesty International
Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation
Doctors Without Borders
Freedom from Hunger
FINCA International
International Aids Vaccine Initiative
Kiva
Mercy Corps
Oxfam International
Partners In Health (PIH), Health Care for the Poor
UNICEF
WHO World Health Organization

 

Can I go to bed now ?

 

This V.

And yes, you took one sentence of context. Can't explain it any more simply to you.

And I know why you aren't answering my question OZ. You can't make a list because it doesn't have any names to put on it lol.

My only point is the above. I don't give 2 shits about your belief that you were the product of 2 pieces of mud that magically evolved into a human body after 200 million years, that's your prerogative. Why isn't mud animated again? Oh ya, it didn't evolve but your mud did...lol.

Just don't deny what churches do every day of the year by people who give up so much to help others. And the history of what they have done in the world for the good of all. Tax exempt all the way!

<end thread - everything has been said>

 

You know nothing about my beliefs

 

That was directed at the atheists.

I believe you, OZ are just stirring the pot.

You took a comment out of context in reference to someone else's comments directed at me.

Here's the quote you took:

"Originally Posted by RadSurfTaco

Glad you found a great atheist who did some good in the world beyond living a self serving life. Let's list all the great countries who were founded on athiestic values and ideals while we're at it, oh ya there weren't any...but I can list some of the worst governments in history who were anti-religious, can you ?"

Your answer was to list charitable organizations who are of no religious denomination or affilation but not necessarily atheistic.

And again with the Bill Gates, really?

"Microsoft Cofounder and CEO, was interviewed November 1995 on PBS by David Frost. Below is the transcript with minor edits...

Frost: Do you believe in the Sermon on the Mount?

Gates: I don't. I'm not somebody who goes to church on a regular basis. The specific elements of Christianity are not something I'm a huge believer in. There's a lot of merit in the moral aspects of religion. I think it can have a very, very positive impact.

Frost: I sometimes say to people, do you believe there is a god, or do you know there is a god? And, you'd say you don't know?

Gates: In terms of doing things I take a fairly scientific approach to why things happen and how they happen. I don't know if there's a god or not, but I think religious principles are quite valid.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_Bill_Gates_an_atheist#ixzz23mm0MHLb"
​

That is not the same thing as an atheist, an atheist knows there is no God of any kind. Bill Gates is agnostic as far as anyone knows.

My point, again - and I said this directly to you as well, was to get the acknowledgement of what churches, religious groups, etc have done in history and in present . Showing the correlation between the 2 ends of the these ideals and why they should be tax exempt.

You do understand the point of this thread don't you?

Do you think I made this an anti-atheist thread?

And, again, I think your just trying to stir the pot for one reason or another.

Or you could post some real thoughts instead of just posing questions based on answers to others (playing devils advocate or stirring the pot, however you want to describe it).

 

I'm a conservative, not a liberal.