Windows 8.....Microsoft dropped the ball?

Besides why spend $300.00 for their latest annoying software when I can get an app that does that for my cell or tablet for just a couple of bucks. Get over yourself Microsloth before someone decides you are no longer needed and develops a competitor product for a fraction of the price.

 

Windows 8 for $15 ?
May as well get it cheap if you're going to get it.

http://www.windowsupgradeoffer.com/

You bought a windows 7 pc/laptop recently, right? You qualify!

 

Did it ever cross your mind that the old has hung around so long because it works so well? New isn't always better. In the process of reinventing themselves, as you put it (though I don't know how copying a cell phone is inventing anything), Microsoft has taken several steps backwards (the start menu and missing menu bar earlier and now this - no start menu, etc), once again making the OS even more difficult for business users and similar (people who have to actually work, with multiple, familiar, apps, etc).

At the same time, coming out with Windows 8 just two years after Windows 7 was just plain stupid. Many companies are only just now completing the transition to Windows 7. My own computer at home (the Win7 one I'm typing on) is less than a year old and I'm already getting messages about no further support (Desktop Gadget Gallery, etc).

To be honest, I switched (after many years) from the Macintosh to the PC after Apple switched to the PowerPC and OS X, obsoleting most of the older Mac apps. I'm now considering the same with an Android tablet. If Microsoft is going to force me to change, I might as well do exactly that - change to an entirely new OS. After all, developers seem to be trying to expand the capabilities of Android, while Microsoft seems to be limiting their operating systems (removing the ability to play DVDs, etc).

 

I was actually gonna post this before I even saw it. Its so true.

 

Your history is a bit twisted. Jobs didn't just retire in the mid-80's. He was "fired" (his own word) by the board after just about driving Apple Computer Inc into the ground (the company, due to the failure of the Apple III, Lisa, and initial Mac, went from 95% of the personal computer marketplace in 1980 to less than 45% five years later).

He was only brought back because his company (NeXT) had a multitasking OS (later to become OS X) Apple desperately needed (mainly because Jobs had earlier pushed out the initial Mac OS developers, who flatly refused to work further with the company). The company remained a losing propostion (near bankruptcy) for the next ten years (until 1998 when it finally returned to profitability).

 

What he said!

 

It's hung around so long mainly because of how much industry they have to support. This makes them into old, slow. Apple played on this image with the "I'm a mac, I'm a pc" ads. Going further, it also played fun at Microsoft being fat and broken, while Macs are lithe and adaptable. I would be surprised if anyone could admit that a stereotype like that is good for MS's image. The technology industry is a study in constant reformation and adaption - Darwinism at its most extreme. If you can't reach the youth of tomorrow, you are going to die today.

Also, not sure how 'it works so well' is a valid comment. Microsoft made CTRL+ALT+DEL and BSOD a household phrase. The 32- to 64-bit architecture change continues to be a problem as well, though constant forging ahead is minimizing these issues.

They copied their own technology, so technically they did invent it.

I'm not sure I see what you mean by the menu bar and start menu missing 'earlier'. There's been a steady progression to enhance the Start Menu in previous versions (recent programs, search, etc.), until they decided to move away from it in Win8. Also, this is the first version that's making any attempt to remove the menu bar, unless you are thinking of auto hide.

I agree that there is a definite disjointed feel between Modern and classic UI which needs to have a MUCH better relationship. However I haven't seen where it slows me down (I avoid charms) since I have keyboard shortcuts. IE10 I think is terrible, but remote desktop is freaking awesome as a Modern app.
My IT manager is actually faster on Windows 8 and he blazes with the search feature. He's looking into creating his own dashboard of Modern apps so he can do system monitoring with the active tiles.

People give me crap all the time because I'm still carrying my "old" iPhone 4, which was released way back in early 2011.
Our company still has a Windows 95 box out in the warehouse.
My boss was working on a project to make our customer sales interface work with a client who had nothing but Windows 98 machines, and had not yet made the upgrade to SE.
In my previous job, we helped a company move off of DOS about 3 years ago.
My uncle is upset that his 286 died last year, his CRT took a dump last month, and he can't read email because his 14.4k modem times out the download. No, I'm not kidding.

Again, today's atmosphere requires change. Deal with it or die under its wheels.

EOS on Win7 isn't until 2015.
You are the first person that has complained about gadgets going away.

While there is a lot of growing pains, some of the stuff being released in Win8 is already getting interesting. Windows to Go is being highly praised for filling in some holes that have existed for years. There is a bit of work still to do, but being able to run full-blown Windows off a USB2 stick and solve offsite security issues is quite a feat. As a developer, built-in HyperV is also very nice.

I don't see any limiting, and if so, I think it shows as a 'cleaning house' move that I don't mind. When x64 made people toss all their ancient crap, I freaking loved it.

For DVDs, multimedia codecs are mainly regulated by outside licensing and is an issue of red tape, so you typically are supposed to buy the rights to run the codec. Since new computers are moving away from including ANY optical drive, they decided not to pay the licensing fees.

I think you would see this as a good thing, since it makes people want to use VLC, much like Unix users, plus it dumps Media Center for everyone except those who want to pay for it. For me, Media Center was always a headache, and I'm guessing I can find a DVD codec packaged with something like CCCP, etc.

I think we are both off a bit, and there's a good lot of conflicting information on the web. I'm not sure why I'm going into it, but...
From the consensus of the websites I pulled,
-You are correct on the Apple III and Lisa, that was a botch during Jobs' watch
-I don't have any information about Jobs removing people for the Mac project; he took over the project.
-Jobs was forced out of the company in '83 after a failed coup against Sculley.
-Under Sculley's command, things started going downhill.

At this point, I'm getting conflicting stories about success and failure, but basically it seems that from Sculley through the return of Jobs, Apple was topsy-turvy. You can argue about a few successes, but I'm left with the feeling that there wasn't anything revolutionary, just efforts to keep afloat.

-the NeXT acquisition in '96 is sort of like you describe, in that they were desperate and it was the catalyst I mentioned.

from there is where we see the iMac (first 'pretty' computer, although I hated the thing, and the power cord made me barf), IPod, OSX, iTunes, iPhone... There's ups and downs in there, but my original point was that during the return of Jobs, Microsoft hasn't had the same success with the consumer market - they are viewed as the parent that just doesn't understand, or ends up being late to the party.

Again, Win8 is a rocky thing, but I'm applauding them for attempting to do something new and getting away from their old self. I think they played a gamble at trying to be first at getting a touch screen OS out to the masses first before totally polishing it up, probably because they were anticipating a move by Apple.

 

Far too much in your message to respond to. However, let my just respond to the above by pointing out that Apple was first to introduce the traditional graphics user interface, complete with menu bars, which (last I checked) remains an intrinsic part of Apple's operating systems to this day (so much for your slow, old, & similar argument above).

Microsoft, on the other hand, has been foolishly trying to shift away from that traditional user interface (including menu bars, etc), now instead trying to mimic the look of cell phones. Personally, I doubt all that many would actually prefer to purchase computers (desktops or laptops) costing many hundreds or even thousands which look and act like a glorified cell phone. Microsoft will use it's dominance to force that anyway.

 

Actually, it was Xerox for the GUI

I now think I understand what you mean by menu bars. I thought you were getting wrapped up in the start menu.

When I said 'slow, old, similar', I'm talking about Windows as an overall product. People feel that it is boring, while Apple users will talk about how fun their OS is... and then the Unix guys come in and show the endless possibilities. Pinning the tag 'next generation' on any of Windows' previous versions wasn't something anyone would do (the really neat stuff got smashed in Longhorn Alpha, where Aero allowed for a cubed multi-desktop and the ability to flip windows over or onto their side).

I don't find menu bars to be something so intrinsic that we can't remove them, we are just so ingrained into using them. I'd like to ask why you feel it is so intrinsic? Let's ask why MS decided to step away from them - I believe the answer was to maximize real estate, reduce clutter, and limit down the number of tasks we think we need to do - when really it's just a bunch of noise.
Now, I think they went a bit overkill. Every now and then you need to get under the hood, and I don't think I should be having to hunt down how to find the 'hood latch', so to speak.

Actually, it's smart, for two reasons. First, the idea is to reduce the differences in interfaces among your products so that people are instantly familiar with what they pick up. Second, the traditional desktop and laptop are going away. Tablet computing is going to take over. If you look at the iPhone and iPad, they are the same thing, and people love that. I don't see why MS should try to avoid that example.

 

Dumped windows 8 like the plague. Moved to a MacBook Pro and love it. Even got a IPad with the retina display and I am really digging it. 25 years of MS is enough.
The 8 interface wasn't great but the BSOD and locked up programs killed it for me.
Never had such bad problems with windows before.

 

Sorry to have to clarify everything so fully. Xerox never commercially released a personal computer using a GUI. The Alto personal computer, developed by Xerox PARC, was used solely at PARC, Xerox offices, and similar. As I said, Apple was first to introduce the now traditional GUI into the commercial personal computer marketplace.

Actually, as was also said, Apple is obviously the one who considers the traditional GUI (menu bars, etc) an intrinsic part of their operating system. Perhaps you should ask them why.

However, it's a fair question for me as well. I see no benefit whatsoever to the new (Windows 8) user interface (perhaps you can define one), while I've spent decades using the traditional user interface (start menu, menu bars, etc).

Given that, why shouldn't I object to yet another unnecessary change lacking any real benefit? Personally, I have better things to do in my life (this forum, for example) than to endlessly try to keep up with Microsoft's seemingly never-ending flights of fancy.

Traditional desktops and laptops are certainly not going away anytime soon. There are far too many areas (engineering, CAD, number & data crunching, programming, commercial photo & video editing, serious gaming, etc) where these larger, more powerful, computers will likely continue for many years to vastly excel.

 

So far, Windows 8 is working OK, no real issues for what I do...I think I paid $59 for it...

 

Ditto.

And running it in "Classic" mode.

I don't even care for the XP interface. I really liked 98se.
Stuck with Win-7 at the office and I'm still not fully used to it.
I need to poke around and see if I can theme it back to 98se.

 

Not all of that could be blamed on Jobs.

The personal computer market in 1980 was pretty much purchases by schools. The loss of market share was due to the IBM clone market, while Apple retained control over the hardware platform as well as the software platform.
IBM instead opted to focus on business machines and the hardware torch was passed to Intel, while companies like Tandy, HP, Dell, and the Taiwanese cloners pushed affordable, compatible, and expandable hardware into living rooms. Gates himself cloning CPM into DOS provided the software support.

Prior to Apple, business ran IBM.
Apple pushed into schools, but never made heavy inroads into business.
In the 80s, people bought a computer for home, based on the "brand" that they were familiar with. Likewise, business software supported IBM, and though the PC was as different from the 360 as the Apple-II/III, the name familiarity held people into the IBM "camp" and software support followed.

By the time the Mac was introduced, the clones were firmly entrenched.

 

What does everyone think about HP-UX 10.11?

We have machines in our lab still running this..

 

All I'm gonna say is Apple ftw!!!!!

 

You didn't miss anything, WinMe was an abomination!

 

Tacoma drivers don't use MACs or Windows. We are all about practicality. Get with the program ppl.....R E D H A T ...FTMFW

 

I agree with complete integration along all peripherals I just think MS screwed up by promoting 8 as the next OS for all PCs. I believe you have to spell out to consumers exactly what your business direction is heading in normal joe speak or the public on a whole will be lost. 8's problem is marketing not execution.

 

I've been sick so sorry for not answering...

LOL didn't mean to get you bent out of shape, just getting a dig in

Do you have proof of this, or are you acting on hunch?

Ask any basic Windows user, and they will say a Start Menu is an intrinsic part of their experience. However, Macs don't really have that, they have the Launcher, and you can drag in the Applications folder to the launcher if you really feel the need to have a 'start menu'... but is that common to do?
Why do apple mice have only one button?
Why is there no delete key on the mac keyboard?
Why does Windows not have a centralized store where you can obtain software?


All things that are intrinsic... might not actually be so. It's just a mindset that you are locked into, or a set of features that becomes common.

An iPad doesn't have much in terms of what you'd call a 'traditional UI', yet the commands become inherent. I think that's what Windows 8 was attempting - making things inherent to people who have never used Windows or a computer. It's a tall task and I'm not saying they got it right. Far from it, in fact, however, keep in mind the experience benefits greatly from a touchscreen.

I lost the number, could you remind me?

Active tiles allow you to see performance or status updates without actually launching an app
search feature is enhanced - near-instant results
clean, minimalistic approach to app design attempts to hide clutter, provide more real estate, and reduce the 'noise' from less-used commands (Yes I think there needs to be improvements here, but the cleanliness is noticeable - I feel my computer is more relaxing, up until there's that setting I want to change. Yet, day-to-day tasks are 'simpler')
Common interface between XBOX, Windows Phone 7, PC, and server software reduces learning curve, creates a common codebase for development
Creates a sense of a 'family' of products rather than disjointed versions - something that Apple did and MS really hasn't before. (Look at Windows Mobile 6, Xbox original, Windows XP, compared to Apple desktops, iPad, iPhone, where everything played nice together).

LOL the whole reason MS has been pushing these changes is because they have been branded as having a hard time keeping up with the wheels of change. Windows Vista was half-baked because MS was trying to keep up with all the latest stuff from Unix and Apple camps.
Even in Windows 8 we don't have the ability for virtual desktops, and how old is that technology?

It's a change that's happening faster than you might think.

For the average consumer, a tablet is becoming a better option. My mom is ditching her Macbook Pro in favor of an iPad because there's nothing for her that the notebook can really do better.

A lot of the tasks you describe can easily be handled by simply switching to an n-tiered architecture (where there is a server layer that handles all heavy logic and a client layer that simply presents the graphical results), or by remote desktop. Having a light duty computer that connects to a powerful server backbone (i.e., a thin client) makes more and more sense.

I can already do most of the serious gaming on my notebook, which has a dedicated graphics card. It can't take much longer for that tech to shrink. That just leaves us connecting a controller into the tablet via wireless and a wireless link to our TV - options for when you need it, left in a bag or at home when you don't.

For the power users, we are going to have a slower transition - we just need more power (queue Jeremy Clarkson ). Now, we carry at least one smartphone, a notebook, a PC, and possibly a tablet as well. My boss has each of these, and he just bought a smart pen as well that records what he writes