Armed security in schools, yes or no.

Statistic do lie or at very least do not tell the whole truth as was pointed out above.

Since 1927 we have had 5 mass school shootings. I defined mass as anything 10 or over. Of those Columbine had one armed security person. Virginia Tech and U of Texas has armed personnel as well. So the argument can certainly be made that armed persons did not prevent 3 school shootings where they were present. But we have had public schools since the 1600's and guns since like what 6-700 Ad?

So if one can argue that armed good guys did not prevent 3 shootings is it not at least plausible to think armed goodguys prevented 100's if not 1000's more? Or do you perhaps believe that since the 1600's only 5 people really considered shooting up a school?

I would like people to consider that an armed person is in fact a deterrent. It is not that that armed person could actually ward off an attack of 50 ninjas that's not the point. The point is hardening up a completely soft target.

If you ever have the opportunity to speak to a criminal who has committed crime, especially violent crime ask him why he chose his target and ask him what would have made him reconsider.

So just like DUI does not eliminate all drunk drivers it deters many and catches some. The point of armed personnel anyplace is not to make the target 100% secure its to keep it from being 100% not secure. Just consider that for a moment.

 

holy crap

 

You bring up more good points though still biased. As for a deterent, what about door locks. They make them really high tech with many uses and options.
Why start with arming ourselves? Why not start with mental health issues?
Fight fire with fire you say. We cannot live with this reasoning. It is not healthy for ourselves or the environment.
That is like saying lets bring an ambulance with us everywhere because we might get hit by a car or attacked by a dog.

 

what do you do when they breach your defenses?... remember how the guy got into the aurora colorado theater?... he entered the building in a harmless manner, then went out an "exit" and propped the door open...

...don't you think it would help to have an action plan?... ever hear of what happened at beslan in russia a few years ago?... these schools are "high risk" for these kinds of attacks...

 

So just like DUI does not eliminate all drunk drivers it deters many and catches some.

I consider the purpose of the DUI traffic stop is NOT to deter drunk drivers, however, it is a great revenue generator. How is armed guards going to generate revenue? Schools are always going to be vulnerable. One guard is not enough. 15 guards is not enough. I feel the police state is big enough. We live in a risky shitty world that is getting worse. I have two children and one of which is the same age as the ones killed. I don't feel that sacrificing their sense of freedom for security is worth it. I will home school if it comes to that. Hey... wait. there's an idea. HOMESCHOOL.

 

The people committing these crimes generally do not have a history of mental health issues recognized by the system.
It's always "We never thought...." but then someone says "He was troubled"... but it's always in retrospect.

These people are not destitute. They are not lacking in apparently nice homes and medical insurance that would cover mental health issues.

They are not getting help because those close to them don't care enough to make sure they get help. That's not going to change with society growing ever more "tolerant" of others' faults and problems (read between the lines, too selfish to take a step to make a difference in someone's life).

These people do not have a history in "the system" because nobody has ever taken the effort to direct them to the system... or the system to them.

We carry cell phones and we have a 911 system.
The predominant reason given for owning a cellular phone by many people of older generations is "in case of emergency since pay phones aren't around anymore"

And many of us DO carry pepper spray in case we are attacked by a dog.
And many of us carry a fire extinguisher in their car in case they need it.
In the event of a fire, or a violent attack, SECONDS count... and the quickest fire or police response in the world is not as fast as a personal firearm or fire extinguisher.

 

We have police on duty and working every second that someone is killed. So police are not the solution to spontaneous murder unless of course they just happened to be right there as it occurred but even then that is no guarantee. We have police to deter people from committing crime who otherwise might give it a shot and to catch those who have comitted crime and were not caught.

So lets talk police and citizens.

A citizen can make and arrest just like a cop can. But why dont they? Because if you walked up to a couple gang members selling dope and said hey you are under arrest, they would likely kick the crap out of you or worse. But when the police tell them you are under arrest, 8 of 10 times they go quietly, 1 time they run and 1 time they fight so why the change? Its the gun, the spray, the taser and the baton. Those are the equalizers and if more people had them and new how to use them we would be in a better position to do some good.

There is always an element that simply does not care they either want to die, dont mind dying, or want to live bad enough to kill you. But there are far more who want to live commit crime and avoid being caught who will always seek the path of least resistance.

 

So you dont want to sacrifice freedom or security by offering neither. So should we eliminate police? There are not enough of them anyway so why bother? Oh and legalize DUI because all it does is generate revenue used to cover the cost of catching more drunk drivers?

 

...well, i think we should be mindful of the dangers of "militarizing" schools, ...but i don't know if hiring a school resource officer to be a "first responder" in the precious seconds of an active shooter or other such attack is endangering civil liberties... who says the resource officer(s) stands at the entrance of the school like a sentry?, ...that would make them vulnerable to attack anyway, ...but having them "in the building", roaming, in admin areas, etc, ...would certainly provide a fighting chance in case of attack..., no?..

as for homeschool, yes, that is certainly an option for some....

 

I don't know the exact number so forgive me but I would estimate there are 1000's of armed cops already at schools across the country every single day. Do many of you not realize this or did you think this was a concept thought of here on tacomaworld?

Guns are already at your schools and if they are not there all day they likely show up at some point just FYI this isnt something thats up for vote its a done deal and you will see more, its not up to you.

 

And barring district policy to the contrary, teachers and staff members who hold a valid CCW can carry on campus.

 

Homeschool ?

Part of education is simply interacting with other personalities .

 

The more we break down the separate points the further we stand apart. If you yourself was to walk up to a gang and try to arrest them, even with a gun, you better believe you will not have the upper hand. The reason cops are able to do this is because they have the ability to be a force, a team and call for more help.
Yes it is a deterrent, a definite deterrent to have armed guards at school or any building for that matter. So what use is that when a seemingly trustworthy man/woman with no history of illness decides to sign up for this task, knows the facility better than anyone and knows the perfect time.

 

Agreed.

I've known more than a few home-schooled people who I would not be totally comfortable with them owning a gun.

 

God damn thats a good idea wish I was rich enough for that

In your reasoning, I should never bring recovery gear with me unless I plan on getting stuck, why have jumper cables, extra key, survival equipment at home when camping, hiking, offroading really no one should ever have survival gear because I never plan on not being able to stop at the grocery store. Hell why even have LEOs people don't do illegal things because thats illegal I won't own any fire extinguishers cause the fire department is just a phone call away and they can be used as a weapon! I really could ramble on and on and on but I think you get the point.

Does having a gun make you safe? No. I really don't think anyone really thinks that, anything can happen at any moment. BUT a gun does give you the ability to have a CHANCE at protecting yourself from most threats. You can go into the if ands or buts but no one is going to change their point of view. I just hope when someone busts down your door with more plans then to just rob you you don't grab a weapon to protect yourself cause someone might get hurt

 

off-topic but, homeschool is awesome.

 

Becoming an armed guard of a position to work at a school (currently actual police officers) takes an extensive background and psych evaluation.
That's not to say that a few loose cannons don't slip through, but not on the level being discussed.

A crazy who is wanting to shoot up a school, even if he is taking his time and planning carefully, is not going to go through the hiring process and wait for "just the right time"

That's Hollywood make-believe.

 

Agree 100% I remember when being made fun of and making fun of people was part of learning to be a person. now its called bullying and kids hang themselves instead of fighting back. Many of our parents posting here are raising ostriches apparently.

You don't have to be pro gun to understand their place in our society and to use some common sense to see why the culture we live in demands firearms.

Its a mindset and no matter what we have to carry out violence and impose our will, we will carry out our will or have it carried out on us. You choose. If we pressed a button and all guns disappeared tomorrow violence would not be eliminated it would simply change form. People don't wake up thinking dam if I had a gun today would be the day I would head down to the local school and cap all those brats, but I don't have one so I will continue to be a productive member of society.

 

Can't agree

 

A more realistic approach for a psychopath with a determination to wait for the right time, might be to build a 20 foot wall with gun turrets around the school that would be hidden underground. When "just the right time" approaches they would push a button that raises the wall trapping everyone inside and keeps the police out. I think it could happen, especially if they want to wait for "just the right time"