White House Petition to classify church group as hate group

Yeah.... If you remove the media coverage, you remove most of their power. I wish they were completely ignored.

 

Let's not confuse freedom of speech with slander. Freedom of speech does not grant you ability to talk shit about anyone at any time. Freedom of speech was written with intent that as a citizen of this fine country you could voice your opinion about the government and after 300 years it became used and abused for other purposes.

You can be religious all you want and voice your opinions all you want provided they are formulated into one cohesive thought. If all you do is say fuck this and shit that then you are slandering others which last time I checked is an offense. You can be prosecuted for slander and forced to pay reparations.

What this organization is doing is violating half a dozen laws and they can get away with it for as long as nobody puts a fist through their face.

#1 Public indecency. This one is pretty much self explanatory. Holding up hate signs for the world to see is completely different than holding signs that say "we need jobs or save polar bears".
#2 Child cohesion. No child should be asked to hold up publicly indecent signs ESPECIALLY since they have not yet formulated opinions about what is socially acceptable.
#3 Violation of privacy against grieving people. It takes a major set of undignified balls to invade onto other people's burial ceremony.
#4 Slander.
#5 Hatemongering

and many more.

Freedom of speech? More like freedom of filth. If this was almost any other country these baboons would have been long shoved into some deepest dungeon where they belong.

 

if they came to one of my families memoral service, or a close friends, and they were there, i honestly dont think i could stop myself.

these people make me sick.

 

you can't yell fire in a movie theater, they knowingly incite violence with their "free speech". Free speech has limitations.

 

1) Public indecency has to do with your body (e.g. public nudity), not your speech. While what they say is vile, it doesn't fit the definition of public indecency. The Supreme Court ruled 8-1 that their signs were protected by the Constitution.

2) Child cohesion? I've not heard of that. I agree that putting innocent kids in that environment is bad. Not sure it's illegal though (e.g. racists are still allowed to raise their own children).

3) As stated before, the Supreme Court ruled that their speech wasn't directed specifically at the individual and was focused on "matters of public import" such as homosexuality in the military, Catholic clergy and the fate of our nation. Plus they stayed 1000 feet from the service.

4) Slander has to be targeted toward a particular individual or business to be enforceable and it has to be shown that the slander caused damages (e.g. someone's career was affected). Plus they have to believe that what they're saying isn't true.

5) Hatemongering isn't a crime in the US.

They know the law and how to push the boundaries of it.

 

What they're doing is no different than what the KKK does in its peaceful rallies. Inciting to violence is when you encourage someone to take violent action on behalf of your speech (e.g. that guy should be killed). It doesn't mean that your speech makes someone so mad that they take it out on the speaker. Yelling fire in a crowded theater puts everyone in danger. The things that the Westboro church yells makes people want to hurt them. It doesn't put the crowd in danger.

 

I agree, I was thinking off the KKK myself in terms of this group. I think in my mind, when does a church no longer operates like a church and therefore should no longer be entitled to tax exempt status. What they are doing is far more political than anything religious, just because they put "God" on their signs doesn't mean a damn thing to me. It's a political group with purely political aims.

 

I don't see them as political. They're not lobbying, or attempting to pass some bill, or telling their parishioners how to vote (I doubt they do vote). They're expressing a religious belief, albeit very obnoxiously. They see the US government as the problem, although; hypocritically, they'll use the government when it suits them (lawsuits). They're not raising their money to give it to some politician or political cause.

 

I'm all for free speech and all but they take it too far. Protesting at a child or soldiers funeral is fucked up. Even more fucked up that they all but applauded the shooting in CT as they viewed it as God doing his work to punish CT for supporting gay marriage. I mean, seriously?

"The FBI defines a hate group as "An organization whose primary purpose is to promote animosity, hostility, and malice against persons belonging to a race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, or ethnicity/national origin which differs from that of the members of the organization, e.g., the Ku Klux Klan, American Nazi Party."

I don't know, they seem to fit that definition to me.

 

+1

 

I don't agree with their view but I do agree they have the right to say what they want. Just as I have the right to not listen and protest back. Being their church is just down the road in Topeka I have been to two of the rallys to line the streets at funerals. Could have been more, they do it alot around here, but my jobs a pain to get off from. They have always ended up leaving before the procession has passed because of the local support here. They just want the attention from the news agencys. Why else would they call them and tell them where and when they will protest next. More wannabe reality show morons looking for 15 minutes of fame.

AMENDMENT XVI
Passed by Congress July 2, 1909. Ratified February 3, 1913.

Note: Article I, section 9, of the Constitution was modified by amendment 16.

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.




I don't see anything about any special groups being constitutionally exempt from paying taxes. That all comes from the IRS codes. I say tax everyone and everything the same rate. No tax exemptions or tax credits.

 

I'll be laughing when karma strikes them down in the form of Jacketed lead.

 

You can't say, "I'm all for freedom of speech... except them because I think they're disagreeable." Doesn't work that way. They haven't threatened anyone and they haven't encouraged anyone else to harm someone, so you can either let them have their say or you can stop saying you support freedom of speech.

They ALL BUT applauded the shooting. That means they didn't applaud it. They didn't encourage more shootings. They encourage a negative attitude toward anyone who disagrees with them but they stop short of encouraging hostile actions. That's something the KKK hasn't stopped short of; they have openly encouraged and engaged in violence.

Seeing as how WBC doesn't go around hanging people or shooting them or burning crosses in their yard or encouraging anyone else to kill or injure another person, why classify them as a hate group? The KKK does the same thing as WBC at its peaceful rallies, but that's not why the KKK is a hate group.

I think they are vile, but they're allowed to be vile. Nothing illegal about what they are doing and it shouldn't be illegal. I don't agree with them, but they aren't actually encouraging or participating in violence.

I'd be proud if they picketed my funeral. Then everyone could know I lived an awesome life.

 

I used to ride with the Patriot Guard, and trust me, "don't have to listen" does not always apply.

I was there to help provide a buffer and help allow families to have a memorial service in peace, but it was not always possible.

This "church" has no respect for anyone or anything.
If they are not stopped by law (and they know EXACTLY how far they can push the law), they will walk up and spit into an open grave.

 

They do not have unlimited resources.
They post that they are going to appear at every memorial service that fits their profile of "God's punishment", but they only show up maybe 5-10% of the time.

Typically, when they do show up, it's only 2 or 3 adults... and they drag out 3 or 4 children to walk on our Flag and hold a sign.

They said that they were going to protest the Amish services a few years back when those kids were killed in 2006, and the Patriot Guard said that they would NOT be there because the PGR had a specific mission and was not a counter-protest group.
They didn't show, and they likely won't show for this one either.

We are talking about them, and that's what they want.

 

Now thats a pretty stubborn and ignorant stance on it. There are plenty of very beneficial, dedicated not for profit organizations that help and provide great services for the community and are able to keep functioning because of donations and their tax exempt status. Just "taxing them all" hurts the community in the end.

That's primarily my reason for agreeing with this motion. While I certainly support their ability to freedom of speech and assemble, and also the consequences that come from it at this point they are doing nothing beneficial for the community as a whole and for that they do not deserve a cent of tax breaks.

 

Any of y'all ever listen to their music online? Those fuckers are completely cray. They are all lawyers too so every time we sue them and they win their case for freedome of speech us tax payers send them a boat load of cash for the legal fees and just line the pockets with cash so they can continue to hate.

 

Herein lies the catch 22 of free speech

 

I'm all for a no exceptiong flat tax but, if it were not for free rides (personal, governemnt or corporations) do you think we'd be in the mess we're in today? "My" Constitution provides the frame work from which all other laws need to fit into...it provides a scope that is to limit the Federal Government not the other way around...though one sure would not understand it that way at this point in time without a little reading.

Why is that a problem?

The methods they use. They really don't deserve to breath the same air as any freedom loving human being IMO. As has already been detailed...protesting funerals of US service personal etc. They are worse then pig shit.

Agree 100%

Though certainly no less important then the Bill of Rights (Amendments 1 though 10) or Constitution, the 16th is not part of the original. Further, do a little reading about the percentages and passage (and what is required for passage) of the 16th Amendment...you may as some, though not myself, find you question is legality.

You and me both!

They do make me sick and I'll be happy when the die off but, I'm with Bethes...

 

I find it remarkable how tolerant you guys are. I find it particularly painful to comprehend that some of you agree with the notion that they have the right to do what they do. It feels me with a huge heavy burden to know that people like this group exist because it actually takes effort to hate.

I am trying to envision this group let's say 50 years ago. During hippy days people were protesting against war in Vietnam and feminist movement and civil rights movement was taking place.

I am also trying to envision this group let's say 100 years ago around world war 1.

And 150 years ago and 200 years ago.

It seems we as a country devolved into passive aggressive beings from gun slinging days when this kind of baloney would not have cut it in the good old days of wild wild west. These fools would have been shot/hung 150 years ago but today its like "oohh noes these guys have the right to verbally cover grieving parents with explosive verbal diarrhea. What has happened to us as a nation that we tolerate this kind of behavior?

I am really trying to open my mind on this one and try and find a glimmer of hope or rational thought that I could hang on to while trying to at the very least tolerate these people. How do you guys do it? I was not raised to tolerate this behavior... heck I was raised in an environment where hate was not even in vocabulary.