**College and Student Loans**

I will be applying for grants and scholarships this summer... I'll see if i can swing a credit card by my pops.

Now using this credit card, you buy something as small as a piece of candy or something as small as a tank of gas? I just want to get this straight

I'll have to look at what jobs i can apply for at school to get this potential discount on my tuition, hopefully it doesn't get in the way of my studies or i have to work at inconvenient times

Well shit, you seem to have this debt thing sorted out, other computer science students i know also have recieved job offers around their junior year of college, i've got 2 semesters till then so i'll have to hope for the best

Ah, well then that changes things a bit.

 

Few things worth bringing up. Why is it that everybody and their grandmother wants to get a minor? I never understood that. Try and put yourself into shoes of a recruiter for a second.

Recruiter works for Lockheed Martin and needs a software engineer. Here you are a fresh out of college applicant. How is minor in philosophy relevant to being a software engineer? All your fraternity, sorority or minor subfields are not relevant to a guy or gal who is looking for an applicant capable of fulfilling job requirements which would be a capable programmer. Also they will not be looking to start you off with a huge pay check. Fresh out of college even with internships you will not have 3-5 years of experience so you will be hired on bottom of pay bracket which very well may be $50,000.

Then you need to start taking out % for 401K deductions, higher tax bracket federal and state income taxes, all kinds of other withdrawals. college payments so in the end your pay of $50,000 will be $25,000 at best.

You are right to be asking financial questions because every decision you will make now may affect the rest of your life AND at the very least next 20 years of your life.

How good are you with computers? Do you currently program? If not then it will be difficult in programming classes because kids that attend those typically just sit there for credits because they have been programming since age 3. Have you ever seen what programmers do? Lure of money may be quickly overshadowed by spending rest of your life staring at lines of code. Have you considered accredited university/college? Employers value higher learning schools. (ie Devry vs Harward.... )

Never plan your future based on what you want to accomplish. Plan your future based on achievable goals. Just because you want to work for X does not mean they will hire you.

Get your degree first and in last year of college start exploring horizons. Upon completion start applying, get your foot into the door, gain experience, pick up brownie points and move where you want to (if that is what you want to do).

 

First of all, i respect what your saying, i chose my minor in philosophy simply because it is a field that im intrested in reading more about and if i can get a minor while learning a bit more about stuff that i think about anyway, also it'll get me off of looking at code and such, which is what i'll be doing once i kill all of my general ed. classes.

I dont plan on becoming a software engineer, or an engineer in general, i plan on going into law enforcement, working my way through a branch of the military, and then ultimately apply for the FBI to work as an federal agent in the cyber squad, i understand what your saying, i've never programmed anything in my life up until a semester ago, im fairly enjoying myself and for the most part im getting the hang of it, just because im going in with no experience what so ever in the field that im pursuing a major in doesnt mean i wont be able to figure it out. That was a bit insulting to me personally.

As far as the money situation, Im aware that i wont be wiping my ass with money from the get go, i've got to earn my way to the money that i want.
Im perfectly aware of what programmers do, where i hope to get more additional experience is in the branch of military and/or law enforcement if given the chance to do so. Secondly the FBI isnt looking just a freaking computer junkie, they are looking for well rounded individuals with a variety of skills and experiences and boring them about my amazing adventures learning nothing but code isnt going to get me in the front door, let alone to the next stage of the applicant process

Im setting a goal, and im going to do what i need to do to acheive it, every now and then i come on TW to ask those individuals whose ALREADY been through what i'm going through and they'll be able to give me valuable insight about the particular situation im going throught and it'll make it easier to overcome.

Not trying to attack what you're saying, just offering the other side of the picture.

 

Hey man as long as you put your mind to it, you can be anything you want to be.

My own career took me in completely different direction that I planned in the first place.

When I was around 12-15 I was absolutely sure I would be a history teacher. When I was 15-18 I was absolutely sure I would be a writing teacher. When I was 19 I was absolutely sure I was going to be a software engineer. I am now 29 with a degree in Geography of all things. In my case I learned very quickly that it's far cheaper to get your degree and work in your career field and THEN explore things that you are interested in. For example in college I was fascinated with public speaking and literary writing which obviously have little to do with my career choice. I explore avenues out of pure interest free of charge because there are plenty of available resources out there. But that is one of perks of branching out after the fact if you know what I mean.

Best of luck on your quest.

 

That was quite the journey you had, career wise anyway,

Im already a semester ahead, so i figured i could fit something im interested in while I study my major at the same time, :0

 

A quick note about minor areas of study, per discussion above: it really doesn't matter how a philosophy minor pertains to career as a software engineer. Minors are tidbits of trivia you can share at the company Christmas party, that's about it. They are as relevant to your career as was your time playing goal for the intramural soccer team. So if you want to study philosophy, go for it! Have fun, enjoy yourself. I minored in Russian language, just because I liked it and I'm good at learning languages. It isn't on my resume and it has almost no application in the real world, except I know what Sean Connery says in Hunt for Red October.

I'm quickly reaching expert status on student loans, having gone to school, graduated, paid loans for a while, re-entered school, graduated again, went back for grad school, and now still working on my thesis and working in a job while repaying both Federal and private loans. 10 years in school probably taught me more about financial aid than most of the subjects I studied. Here's my experience:

-federal loan programs are always preferable (in my opinion) to private loan programs. They aren't always cheaper, but they are generally much more lenient about repayment if something happens down the road and you need to defer your loan payments. Direct Loans (the Dept of Education's loan servicing branch) will allow you forbearance and deferment with very few hassles, while private lenders run the gamut from easily working with you to forcing you into bankruptcy. Beware though that if you end up declaring bankruptcy for some other reason down the road, you will not get out of Federal loans, period.

- No debt is preferable to debt. If you can pay it with money in your account, pay it. Then work over the summer or take a semester off and save up your money to finish your degree.

- if you decide to take the unsubsidized loan, make interest-only payments until your loans enter repayment. Then the interest doesn't accumulate and isn't capitalized when your loan enters repayment.

- you will be able to consolidate your loans at the end of school one time. If you want to consolidate again you have to go back to school and get another loan. Currently the Department of Education via Direct Loans is the only entity making consolidation loans. EVEN IF THEY ARE YOUR ONLY LENDER when you graduate, consolidation will make your monthly payments much less, though it is unlikely to save you on interest. It is possible your interest rate may go up to whatever the cap is on your master promissory note. Mine stayed the same, and averaged out to 4.5%. My dad is paying nearly 8% on his loans. Luck of the draw/timing.

- Your school's financial aid office will drive you to drink if you have to deal with them for much more than 4 years, so do yourself a favor and finish your degree as quickly as possible.

- if I'd paid attention to my own advice as above, I'd owe about $20K less. If I'd been more aggressive (or less lazy) about scholarships I might have done my second undergrad for free. If I'd chosen a good major for me to begin with I wouldn't have done my entire 1st undergrad degree. So try not to learn the lessons the way I did! Good on you for thinking it out early.

 

Sorry I didn't read everything in this thread.

But, I'm several years out of college. I have more in student loans that I can even keep track of, and I don't expect to ever be able to pay them off. more than 50% of my disposable income goes to paying my student loans and I can barely keep up with them.

My advice, DON'T ever take out any student loans. It's a racket and they never go away and rarely ever does anyone manage to pay them off.

If you have to leave school, or go to a cheaper school, then so be it. If you can't afford to go to school on scholarships, grants, or family saving (like a college savings plan), then you are at a school that is too expensive.

Things are not they way they were when our parents went to school. The economy sucks and will likely never return to what it was, and college will just get more expensive. The days of a good college education and being able to pay for it after you get out are long gone and will never return. Taking out more in student loans will just put you deep into debt before you even start your career and no way to get out of it.

 

Well I'd to say thanks for your wonderful contribution to my thread, i appreciate it

I'll just have to bust my ass this summer with 2 jobs to try and close the gap on the deficit and work a bit through college to keep the debt level as low as i possibly can.

Consolidation is sounding good atm as i dont remember how many people i owe money anyway lol

well that sounds quite dark, what did you go to school for?

 

I can't argue with this because I was in the same boat for a while. It was one of my main reasons for going back to school: the jobs I could get with the degree I held didn't pay enough for me to move out of my parents' house and repay my loans. And I hated the jobs, too. I was looking at 25 years of misery. I literally reached a point where I realized I could change something or kill myself, because I wasn't going to do what I was doing for much longer, the depression was soul-crushing.

Make sure if you're going to take on debt that your intended career path can support the necessary level of debt while still giving you the life you want. If not, you have to change something.

 

Happy to share. I edited a bit on you there, but nothing that changed the gist of things.

Oh, don't worry. They'll let you know.

 

Truth.

man i love TW, just filled with good people

 

What didn't I go to school for? I've spent time in college studying: music performance, arts management, recording techniques, computer networking and administration.

I work as a full time professional theatre sound engineer. Believe it or not, every piece of my long meandering education goes into play every day in my job.

 

^^^This.

You're going to accrue some debt no matter what be it student loans, credit cards, etc...

You read it all over msn, yahoo finance, bloomberg, people who went 6-figures in debt to do what they love like 12th century poetry, medieval history, or english literature. What career will you have with that degree that will pay off a 6 figure debt?

A computer science degree (correct?) is in demand, but somewhat saturated IMO... Just make sure you have the internships, and network. Everybody graduates with the same degree in that major, your internships will separate you from the crowd and will help you land that job.

Or get an engineering degree A buddy of mine graduated last year with a BS in Chem engr. Had not stellar grades, no internships, no job, just school on his resume. Landed an 82K/year job in Texas at a gas company. First thing he did was buy a BMW with is signing/moving bonus. lol.

 

$1,000 unsub at 6.8% fixed = $68 in interest per year. You may take more unsub loans so they will also be $68 in interest per $1,000 taken per year unless the rate changes after 2012-2013. You can pay the interest as you go and if you elect to do this you will owe just the principal. Not the greatest rate but not too bad either.

For contrast, let's look at graduate students, who can no longer borrow a subsidized Stafford because Uncle Sam has taken it away, but they can borrow up to $20,500 per year in unsub. That's more than 20x the interest of your $1,000 unsub. Grad students may also take credit-based GPLUS loans @ 7.9% on top of that. Much more interest being charged in this scenario. I'm not trying to encourage you to take debt you don't need but you should understand that relative to some other folks a few grand in an unsub loan isn't the worst decision in the world.

You can also repay the loan whenever you want, so long as you have the means, and that ends the interest right there.

 

Just don't let work affect your grades. With an FBI job, you're going to need extremely high grades. The minimum is 3.0 but you'll want to keep it at 3.8 or better. The competition to get in is stiff. I don't think I would bother with the military unless you can't get into the FBI first. It probably won't help you get in. You'll likely not use programming much in the military either so your skills will get rusty. Plus, if you want to be a special agent, they have a minimum age restriction of 37 and a maximum age of 57 (you'll have to retire as a special agent). So the more years you can get in before you're forced to retire, the better.

Try to get a volunteer internship job with them. I would apply as soon as possible:
https://www.fbijobs.gov/239.asp

 

^ This. If you're considering the military after college I would talk to the Army National Guard now. They will pay for your school and pay you to go to school. If I had it to do over again this is the route I would have taken. I have two cousins that went this route and they never regretted it.

 

The internship for the FBI starts when you are a junior/senior/grad, Im but a sophomore so im not getting into that yet, anyway.

False I just spoke with a member on TW thats in the FBI and he HIGHLY recommended, military or law enforcement, as it shows leadership and it will make you stand out above other applicants, if 100,000 people apply(which prob will, 20,000 will be represented by law enforcement/military/ex-military which is a much smaller group of people to compete with. I've done quite a bit of research If i can get into the army, which shouldnt be a problem as i dont have any problems that i know of, they can pay my school, i'll get paid to go to school, i'll kill my debt, and i'll go into the military as an officer and stay in for about 5-6 years while a get a job in my field(hopefully)

But the grades thing is very important, that is true, i'll have to make sure i dont 'f' up. My GPA at the moment is a 3.54 so it could improve some.

Working on it I will most likely take this route, i cannot afford to stress my parents with my debts

Thats intresting. What sorta stuff do you do and the pay isnt that great? or is it?

damn echoing something aren't ya? lol That sounds good and all but ive looked at entry engineering classes and i didnt want to bother with them

Yes, i see where your going, my debt im contemplating is a drop in the bucket compared to some folks. I've already taken the 1000 sub loan, apparently there was a sub and unsub version, i opted for the sub version but this conversation is interesting and may help others if they use the search function

 

They probably do desire it if you have it. Law enforcement, probably as long as you're using your degree in the manner in which you want to use it when you're in the FBI. The advantage of military time is it will count toward your federal vacation accrual and retirement benefits. Either way, it will still be better to not go that route at all if you can just get in based on your grade merit alone. Why wait four years if you can just get in from the get go.

Remember also, if you can't use your degree while you're in the military, then your skills will be considered old. Four years with no relevant experience is a long time in computer science/forensics.

Use the military/police option as a fallback in case they don't take you straight out of college. Another thing to consider is what will be easier to get out of should they accept you at a later date. If you're a police officer, you can easily quit if the FBI accepts you. There might be a minimum service time if you're in the military (I'm not sure what the minimum period is for an officer, you probably wouldn't want to go enlisted as it will be guaranteed to lock you up until the contract is over).

One thing that can also help you in the FBI is a second language. If you're proficient in another language, you'll be more valuable. I'm not sure what the best language to have would be but Arabic, Farsi (Persian), or Chinese would probably be high on the list. Spanish is probably also desired due to our proximity to the border but it doesn't stand apart as much as the others would. I know you're interested in philosophy but they'd probably prefer a language minor over a philosophy minor.

Also, don't forget your Credit/No Credit options for some classes. Use those for the upper division classes that might give you trouble but aren't related to your major. Use them to preserve your GPA. If you have a class that you know you're going to hate or have a hard time with, but it is required, consider Credit/No Credit (pass/fail).

 

It will be almost IMPOSSIBLE to get in straight out of college, i have no experience whatsoever, i have nothing but a skill set, I know of no that has gotten into the FBI without some form of experience whether it was law enforcement or military training(some are green berets,ect) when they apply, you need to have some sort of experience that shows leadership, and knowledge, you need to have good communication skills among other things.

I've been contemplating keeping some of the classes and saving them for later so i can have some buffer classes so i can keep my GPA afloat in the event that i bomb something big, i only have 3 math classes i have to take, im trying to kick them out the way now, before the material in the major gets real.

I may consider taking a second language, most likely spanish as i already have a small background in that.