On Board Water?

Subbed for future project

 

Bob, How is your on demand water system working out? I've read good reviews about the pump and mostly very good things about the ecotemp L5 heater. I'll probably get the same parts and build the same thing in the next few months. The unit will see duty in my back yard in the summers and of course when camping as well.

Thanks.

 

It's winterized and stashed in the garage right now, but it worked like a charm while camping this summer! It saw about three weeks worth of use from multiple people and never had a single issue. Actually the only problem I had was the led in the cheapo rocker switch burned out, but the switch still functions.

I did notice that the pickup tube in the draw tank began to get a bit of algae growth on it after I used campground water to re-fill the tanks. I might have to look into carrying a small bottle of bleach with me in the future so I can add just a bit to kill the crud when I'm going out for an extended period again.

I read all the reviews on both products as well before buying which is what made me decide on them. I have no issues whatsoever with the pump. The L5 heater worked perfectly, but it does feel like it won't stand up to a whole lot of getting banged around. I've been using the original box to transport and store it in, but I need to come up with something better before next season. I'm thinking something along the lines of a Pelican case where I can customize the interior for the unit and hoses and such.

Also, as other reviewers stated, the hose between the heater and the shower head is complete trash so I replaced it without ever even trying it.

About the only real change that I plan to make with the system is switching to two 20-gal tanks before next year. I could get about 10-12 'camp' showers out of the 30 gallons, but it would be nice to have a bit more.

 

Appreciate your detailed response. Thank you.

 

ANyone grab one of the Plate Heat Exchangers yet? I like the look of the ones by http://www.brazetek.com/

Issue is I cant decide on the plate numbers! 10? 20? 26? 30? 40?

No real guide for it anywhere either.

 

For what application? Are you thinking of running your engine coolant through this to heat external water?

 

Frontrunneroutfitters.com has a bunch of water tank's. Some are even designed to fit behind the Taco's rear seat.

http://www.frontrunneroutfitters.com/Water-Solutions-c47/

 

Yep. Running coolant through it off the engine.

Also saw the frontrunner tanks and will be doing a tank under the truck instead

 

I briefly thought about ways of using engine heat to crank up my water, but realized it wouldn't be practical for my extended stays in the toolies. I didn't want to have to start the truck and bring the engine up to temp every time I wanted hot water. I sleep on the truck so it's not going anywhere while camp is set up. Also figured I'd be wasting a lot of gas that way.

 

we use one of these in combination with an outside wood burner to heat our house hot water, heat the house, and heat the pool. they work extremely well and if i were to do an on board water system i'd for sure use this as a heating method... or a stand alone unit like posted above but the heat exchanger would take up a lot less room (but use more gas to heat up the coolant/water).

this is a great way to have pressurized on board air that you can also take off the truck if needed... was a TW member that posted this but i forget the name.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POrNzl0wqXI&feature=share&list=FLw2YGU_tA8iA5i9DE3xSYyA

 

In my case, the fuel issue will not be an issue. When I'm ready to shower, I normally have already taken the truck a few extra miles or for some reason had the truck running.

Spear fishing, I normally bring the truck up to temp as I'm changing out my gear and rinsing off gear and myself.

Camping, normally we are packing up or I had to run somewhere for something. Whatever the case, SPACE is at a premium in the size truck we have with the amount of people that I travel with.

Hunting, - blood, cleaning, <- need I say more??/

Anyone knows, a warm shower can be that extra little motivation to get on with the day/ night.

Having to bring propane, and a heating unit - 2 cubic feet? maybe 3 cubic feet? - It's all a trade off. I would prefer that space be used for FUEL or other things. We all know our needs are different. For me, this could work beautifully.

My goal here is to also add an electrical heater to the tank that I could decide at the time, what would be more efficient for me to use. With an electrical heater, I could use a timer, and have the whole system come on at a designated time.

Adding that load to my dual battery setup would be easy. If I needed even a 3rd battery, theres a great spot for it in my engine bay I could drop one in. Doubt I would need a 3rd, but if I did, I could accomodate it.

Storing the water under my truck in dead space would be better for my storage needs.

I looked at other options-
pressurized jerry cans,
jerry cans,
bed storage,
behind the seat storage,

Reality here guys is, I could justify this all day. Truth is, this is what I WANT for MY needs.

I have been is situations where I was offering some of my supply's/ fuel/ food, to others for a nice hot shower.

 

This post here is important.
http://offroadpassport.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6210&postcount=9
http://offroadpassport.com/forum/showthread.php?t=754

He went with a 10 plate and claimed it was hot enough.

Some other quick thoughts too.

Most of the foods I use while camping involve boiled water. Seafood, pasta, freeze dried foods, vegetables, etc.

If I went with a +20 plate, I could also get the water up to temp, and have a filtration system and cut the cooking times down considerably. Less cooking fuels too.

In combination with an anti scald unit, this could be very versitile/ useful.

 

The other style of heat exchanger is this.
http://www.helton.com.au/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObvBa7kh54Q

http://biobug.org/jeep/zj/shower/

 

Cool. Definitely post pics once you get everything set up.

 

Links for everyone I book marked
http://www.cruiseroutfitters.com/index.html
http://www.helton.com.au/
http://www.glind.com.au/store
http://www.brazetek.com/products/de...hillers/30-plate-heat-exchanger-/-chiller-3/4
http://www.webasto.com.au/products-and-markets/ena/html/8829.html
http://piranhaoffroad.com.au/product/power-showers/power-shower-parts
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/72802-On-Board-Hot-Water-Shower-System
http://www.shurflo.com/rv-products/...umps/extreme-series-smart-sensor/default.html
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/air/
http://offroadpassport.com/forum/showthread.php?t=754

$120 Brazed Plate Heat Exchanger Stainless Steel SS316L 3"x8" 30 Plates 3/4" FPT Female Connections Hydronic Heating

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1389517282&pf_rd_i=507846
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/63643-03-Tundra-helton-heater-install?highlight=helton

These are just SOME of them. I have many.

 

the machines i build at work use these flat plat exchangers all the time.
they are used in refrigeration as well. some have threaded connectoins, or slip joints connections for brazing. they are very good, just remember, if you do use one, have your water flow running in an opposite direction of your engine coolant flow

 

Yep, for sure. Any chance you have any of these at a killer deal?

 

I use one of those plate heat exchangers for cooling my liquids when making beer. They do work really well; but the more thermal difference you are trying to get means you need more plates for better heat transfer. I use a 10" 40 plate setup and I can cool boiling water to 70 degrees F using 50 degree water as fast as the water will flow.

I would make sure to install a way to adjust the water flow through the chiller as a way to control the resulting water temp. The slower the flow the more heat exchanged.

 

Funny thing here is I could MAKE one of the Helton units out of stuff from the local hardware store.

If anyone wants to make one from HomeDepot or any other place that sells Soft copper pipe, heres the way you make the tight turns with the copper WITHOUT kinking it!.

1st - decide what diameter you want to get first. 1/2" should be fine for this application.

2nd - decide what diameter casing you want to use. 3" or 4" I think. Remember though, the coil will be 1" of lost volume once the 1/2" is coiled. Proper fittings to closer off each end of the 3" or 4" pipe. Done worry, get the end caps, we can/ will drill them out for the fittings.

.5" x 2 = 1"

3rd - The most important part here is the COIL. To make it, here's the secret. WATER and SOAP! Make a 5 gal bucket, or your sink, full of water. Add LOTS of liquid soap, detergent for the washing machine for clothes counts too. The reason for this is ICE!. But the Ice needs to be pliable, thats where the soap comes in. When the Soapy Water freezes, it can be bent, and nOT fracture once under load.

4th - Ok so we have the solution, and the thin walled copper pipe. Fill the copper pipe with the solution, and freeze it. Back up there... The way to fill it is to pust the center of the coiled pipe down to form a slight pyramid or cone. Now when you immerse the pipe, in the solution, it should fill up by itself. If not, spin the coil a little to get the water through the coils. OR the old suck method works too. Cap off each end with plastic stoppers, corks or whatever you have around.

Wipe all the soap off the exterior, rinse, and dry. Place it in the freezer overnight and remove it in the AM when you are ready to work on it.

5th - you need a pice of pipe smaller than the diameter of the housing you are going to use. Smaller by 1.5" - Reason for this is when you coil the 1/5" pipe, it will eat up a total of 1" and you are going to want the spacing from the sidewall to coil to be between 1/2" to 1/4" to allow flow of liquid around the whole coil for better heat transfer.

.5" (soft copper) x 2 = 1" volume coil takes up
4" (housing diameter) - 1" (volume coil takes up) = 3"
3" - 1" (.5 spacing on all sides) = 2" (wrap pipe)
2" (wrap pipe) - .75" (3/4" copper pipe) - .5" (1/2" soft copper pipe) = .75" (remaining space in center of coil)

6th - Make a decision on WHERE you want the outlets to be. What I mean by this is all on one end? or 2 on the top and 2 on the bottom?

To make the 2 on the top, I like to get the smaller diameter pipe. Stick one end through the whole pipe leaving 2" - 3" sticking out one end. Then start the wrapping of the coil on the exterior of the pipe. Do so until it is down to the opposite end. Bend the end of the coil in a 90º angle so you have a the 2 ends parallel to each other.

Alternatively, for the 2 n 2 setup - 90º in opposite directions.

I think the tubes on the vehicle side ore 3/4"? Get 2 pieces of 3/4" copper for the 2 n 2 setup. Only 1 for the all 1 side setup.

*remove the caps off the ends and dip the while coil in hot water to melt the ICE. Just wash out the coil and your ready to rock!

7th - put it all together. Using a UNI bit and a drill, line up the coil and drill two 1/2" holes for the pipes in the end cap. If possible you want the coil to NOT touch the sided of the housing. Just to be suspended in there. Drill 2 more holes that are 3/4". One in the center of the coil so the 3/4" piece of copper can fit in the center.

The 3/4" piece needs to be suspended from bottom of the housing by 1" or more to promote unrestricted flow.

Fit it all together!

8th - Sweat/ braise all the parts together. The second hole of the 3/4" needs a small piece of pipe for the fitting to be braised to. You can use whatever fittings you want on it. But make sure you braise everything and there are NO leaks.

 

I can draw all this out on paper and snap a photo. Or try it in Photoshop./ Hopefully you guys n gals have an imagination and can visualize this. It was suposed to be a tutorial on HOW to cold bend COPPER. But I decided to go all the way with the how to on the Cylindrical Heat Exchanger.