king vs. icon vs. fox racing coilovers

And that way you won't be victim to this:






Their top attachment design is an example of stupid engineering putting all the stress on the weakest point.

They really need to start delivering them with longer bolts, a .250 reinforcement ring on top and call it good.

 

^im confused on how icon had poor engineering. Can you explain?

 

I always thought fox' were degressive.. Guess not

 

The weakest point on the 'top hat' is right across (opposite side of the opening) from the opening they use to allow the resi hose connect to the top of the shock. Brandon H just changed his for the second time in about 18 months. MPletiez had to have his bucket reconstructed and reinforced (along with replacing the top mount).

Don't get me wrong, I love the products look and performance. They have clean stuff and good people. My opinion comes from my background in Engineering and Aircraft . Like I said, they could send a reinforcement plate for the top to reduce the strain in that area.

Icon's are valved quite nicely for on and off-road performance. Other than the Top Plate design and the fact that they chose not to use a Shrader valve for Nitrogen charging, I think their c/o's are some of the best!

 

We have seen this happen with Kings, SAW's and Fox's. The issue is not with the top cap, it's the set-up of the entire suspension and a weak coil-bucket. Ya the shock mount split, but so did the coil bucket on the truck. Having another plate wont stop it, just band-aid it. If you bottom out hard enough on anything this will happen. Full LT or Mid-Travel. I have seen shock mounts on built race vehicles snap like twigs. If the shock was the weak point the shaft would have bent. Not saying every truck must have limit straps and bump stops, but we cycle every kit we put on to check for any issues. As much as a slightly bent frame or coil bucket can cause an issue. Also, Icon is aware of this issue also and they are working on a solution just the same as the other companies are i'm sure.

LT or Mid you should always cycle and make sure evrything is bumped and strapped correctly.

Also, to tough on the Digressive vs. Progressive, both have their strong points. For a Mid-Travel, Daily driven application which is 95% of Icon users, the digressive valving is much better. It's more on road friendly, with the ability to go beat on it as well. It's a stiffer valve in the fist portion of travel, then softer through the mid, and then stiffer at the end to act as a bump zone.

With Fox/King, ect. The progressive valving is gonna be more full Long travel application. Which is why the TT's and Class 1's use them cause they have 17+" of travel. They are blowing through those first few inches so fast and so often that it's not need if that makes sense.

That being said, Icon has made shocks for LT with different valving. Every Icon shock comes with different valving as opposed to the OEM Fox/King replacements that come with base valves. In the scheme of things, Icon is still a new company compared to the other big 3 shock brands. Icon just decided to gear more towards the Daily driven, street/weekend warrior application.

One more thing, the pre-load on the 3rd pic looks to be a whole lot. That could cause excessive hard bottom outs as well on any shock.

By no means is this post trying to do anything more that put info out there for everyone. Not matter what color shock you have, all that matters is your having some fun with it.

 

All due respect to you guys - That C top hat design and cantelived mount tabs are in no way as strong as KING or FOXES. - I have seen failures of coil buckets as well but with the Icon design the failure of the top hat occurs before the coil bucket goes. I removed that 3rd picture since I think the installer notched the coil bucket only adding to the failure.



When are you guys going to be racing again and have you sold the 5 car?

 

Just for reference in top plate design. DR/Icon had a good idea about getting a longer travel but a good finite element analysis would have done wonders to work on the final design.

 

We were gonna race Parker maybe, but with KOH right after didn't have time. I am itching to get back in there though. We have had a few offers on the bug, but nothing close to what she is asking, or just trades that don't work.

Ya, they build their shocks for them, hence why so many out there run them. With so many running them there will be complaints and issues with any product under the sun. The # of customers with 0 problems that love them and use them is massive compared to those with problems. Also, those with problems just ditch them like you said, and they don't contact where they got them or try to resolve the issue. Icon is more than willing to work with customer on any issue rather it be valving, defects, ect. Every truck can act different just by weight in the rear, or a 280lb driver and pass. vs a 175lb driver and pass. That alone shows why all the best working race trucks out there "Dan Vance" spends so much time tuning shocks and shock set-up, you can make 12" of travel out perform 18" all day long. No shock company can account for every different tire/rim size and weight combo out there ya know. All shocks are hand made from every company, and every person who touches those shocks in the assembly process could have a bad day now and then. Seen it with all brands from fox's and Kings leaking brand new from the box and Sway-A-ways coming out of the box rusted. Every one has their own opinions on everything. Anyone who has or had a job knows you will never have 100% satisfaction with customers no matte rhow hard you try and how much you put into a product. Personally i have owned, used, and raced on all 4 shocks brands. My DD/family wagon 4Runner will be getting Icon's just like my Brother in law's Titan that he loves. The 1450 i started out racing in had Kings, Our 1450 Dodge now has Fox's, and my old F-150 had SAW's. All had their faults and their strengths. No more sense in beating a dead horse on this subject though. Do your research, ask questions, make an educated purchase and go have fun. We are always here to answer any questions and shoot you straight for what will be the best for each setup.

-Vince@SDHQ

 

And for the record, I'm running them and got them from SDHQ! lol

 

So, in some ways the recommendation to verify travel is not only in checking extension but also to ensure the shock do not bottom before the bump stops are fully utilized AND to ensure the spring does not coil bind and become the limiting item in wheel movement.

So then, do any of the Icon, Fox or King recommended shocks have issues I have mentioned.

PK

 

I can attest to this. I contacted Icon about a problem. Within 48 hours they called me back asked for my address and are sending me a brand new set to replace. No questions asked.

Excellent customer service

 

unless you have way too muchpreload on the springs, you will not have coil bind issues.

unless you swap out for shorter bump stops in the factory location, or improperly set up air bumps, you will not have shock bottoming out issues.

the above goes for factory replacement shocks from fox, king, icon, etc, that are specified for our trucks. if you take one of their other shocks and retrofit it to your truck, there are no garantees.

 

Exactly Colin, so then it is expected that during bottoming the peak load will go into the bump stop.

If the upper shock mount perch is breaking, then something else is promoting the failures. Machined aluminum may not be the ultimate choice.

These failures seem to be more talked about in regards to Icons.

PK

 

Not all of the time. just because you bottom out, and and hit the bump stops, it doesn't mean that there is more force on the bump stop than the coilover top hat.

Aluminum isn't to blame, but the design. icon has the top of the shock actually coming out of the top of the coil bucket. the downside to this is obviously that it creates a need for a smaller top mount, and therfore a potentially weaker point. while Icon definately made a mistake here, they are not dumb, and must have done it for some reason. my gues (i have not verified this with measurements yet) is that by designing their top mount like this, which moves the top of the shock up higher, it allows them to get the same shock stroke, while using a longer shock body. longer shock body means more oil, better cooling, slower component wear, etc. it would appear that their heads were in the right place and they just took it a little too far.

 

Who sells this upper shock mount and will it work with Icons?

PK

 

You only gain an eighth of an inch of travel?
Don't Icons gain a full inch?

 

X2 ^

I'm also really confused with the King/Icon differences. I thought I was sold on the Ext travel Kings until I read the offer only 1/8" gain over stock travel.

So if I'm reading this correctly :

Icon:
3" maximum lift
1" travel gain over stock
Digressive Valving
No compression adjusters

King:
3" maximum lift
1/8" travel gain over stock
Progressive Valving
Compression adjusters


Can someone correct me if I'm wrong?

 

Icon does offer Compression adjusters with the resi now.

Also, Icon's are position sensitive with an internal bump zone for the last 3" of travel to help with bottom outs.

Both King and Icon have 3" piston's.

 

Oh, nice.
So by you adding to to the list here, does that mean that the information EVE Designs listed is true?

 

Ya, everything he listed is correct, i just added to it. There are a few more Pro's/Con'[s but those are the main things.