king vs. icon vs. fox racing coilovers

Ya, the best working shock no matter what brand is gonna be one that is tuned while out testing the vehicle. But how many people have that time, money and can do it on their own. Not a whole lot. Everyone would be out every other day changing valving. Look at the TT teams, they go out with their shock specialists or a rep from the company and put a bunch of miles on the shocks and rebuild them multiple times with diff. shim stacks. The average consumer is not going to do this, so getting them setup with as close to a specific tune as possible out of the box is a nice thing to have.

What a lot of people don't account for, is that Icon also builds suspension. You don't see anyone running King UCA's or shock hoops, ect.. So a company who is designing suspension that works in conjunction with shocks that they make to go along with it will have good R&D. That's not to say that the shocks wont work with TC or Camburg arms, they do, and they work great. One of our most popular combo's are Icon C/O's and Burg uppers.

 

Just wanted to touch on a few things for everyone that are a little off from what is coming out of this thread....ICON has a "digressive rebound piston" and it's not just pre-loaded valving shims. A digressive piston has a completely different flow characteristic then that of a linear piston. If you dyno a linear piston with no valving at all, and compare that to a digressive piston, you can see a difference at high speeds.

You are correct about the vehicles being different, 4Door 4WD V6 will ride different then a Single cab 2WD 4Cyl (just an example). However the ride quality is still within our acceptable range of variation for the different weights of those vehicles. Take for example the Nissan Frontier, we (ICON) make a light and heavy valving option because the weight difference between certain factory equipped vehicles is drastic enough to warrant a different shock tuning all together. We cannot account for EVERYTHING a customer can and/or will do to their individual vehicle. These are a production off the shelf product we do not currently produce multiple options for every vehicle on the production level. So to combat that we offer 2 things, one is a shock tuning service to accommodate those specific customers needs. We can re-tune a shock to work with modifications you make at any time whether you decide to make changes upfront or down the road. When a customers requirements fall outside the range of our off the shelf shock, we also have the second option and use a custom build approach. We have sheets that we fill out that can create any combo and valving spec with all the many options of parts we can use to accommodate the needs. We do this all the time for individuals though our dealers. Heck some of them even re-order the same thing often because their customer base has the need for it on more than one persons vehicle.

On to the CDC......

The CDC Valve does restrict oil into the reservoir, but in a CDC equipped shock we (ICON) recalibrate the main piston to compensate for the additional resistance added by the CDCV. Otherwise, just adding a CDCV would make the shock drastically stiffer. CDCV’s don’t change valving, CDCV’s change the amount of force created by the shock. Ultimately the vehicle doesn’t know if the resistance in the shock to absorb a hit/bump is created from the shocks size, the piston, the valving or the CDCV. All the truck feels is a dampening effect from the shock regardless of it’s origin. We (ICON) make sure that the coilovers are correctly calibrated to absorb a shock input/hit with a well-defined output/resistance from the coilovers to accommodate that size of hit. Yes, as a matter of fact there is a second DIGRESSIVE piston and valving in the CDCV. We have different CDCV’s for different applications, 7/8” shafts, 1” Shafts, IFS applications, 1:1 or straight axle applications and the list goes on. We DO NOT have 1 CDCV. We have several configurations to accommodate for any and all vehicle specific applications we make shocks for. Yes you are going to see marketing terms or marketing hype used as it was said and this is so you the consumer looks at it or or way long enough to find out some info. I have kids and you know as well as I do if you walk in the grocery store the house cereal brand is not going to get the time of day vs the cool looking transformers triple throw me down box right!!! Look we want you to look our way and find out more about it, find out that we are not just doing what all the other guys are doing. We took a different approach to this and it was well thought out prior to even deciding to add it to our line. With this said anyone is welcome to come down and learn about our shocks. We welcome the opportunity to educate you about the products ICON is making. We are working hard right now to release the CDC Valve for ICON shocks formally and should have this out in the next few weeks or so. We want to do it right and have the correct display of information along with video to help people understand what we are doing. We want to eliminate the guessing and provide you the facts your after.

 

Now he tells us!
Jk...thanks for the clarification.
+1

 

Just trying to be real with ya man....I'm human just like you and thought a real world example would be better then fluff. There is certain things the company is not going to put on a public forum, it's the work we have done to be able to make a dime, but a lot of what your asking for is ok. We will be providing example so most of the questions on a general level (not for every shock we make) for the CDC release. I do know they are putting together graphing, a video with Dylan our engineer that developed it, and I will certainly let them know TW is asking for a cut away.

I am baffled by the fact that even on other forums people have mentioned that you can't rebuild an ICON shocks, and that only ICON can do it. There is absolutely no truth to that. There is nothing different about rebuilding our shocks vs. any of the others. You might have a question when it comes to setting the floating piston, but we tell people how to do that all the time. We sell rebuild kits, ICON specific oil, tools, and we are more than willing to put a shock tech on the phone to answer any question you have while rebuilding shocks on your own. I would encourage you to call in as there is only so much we are going to accomplish going back and forth on the key board. Give us the effort to call in so I can get you on the phone with Dylan, and you guys can chat about all the tech stuff you have questions about. Then he can get a grip on what you really are looking for and let you know if that is info ICON will share. If it is then he can get it to me to share. Fair enough?

 

As mentioned in the post prior to this, we are assembling graphing examples, video, and I am going to request a cut away as well as that does make sense.

Is there something specific you have in mind so I can relay that to the team? We are more than willing to provide the example if it is realistic. That is why I am here, to be with one with you and get what your looking for so you make a good decision about our product. We are very open minded and want to provide the information the consumer is looking for when factoring ICON suspension and shocks absorbers in their decision. Can we open our computers and give you drawings, and every last detail, probably not. But I know I can get you enough to suffice our desires for sure. I def was talking in general on the marketing hype deal and it was a broad scoped comment. We call this the CDC Compression Damping Control Valve, well because that it what it really does. This was thought out and we took a different approach. We did not just throw in a valve that allows the shock to get stiffer, it has to make sense. So we set the standard valving curve to about number 4 so you can actually soften compression or stiffen compression over our standard valving in the regular coilover for that model. We did each and every remote reservoir application one by one.

Let me know your ideas and we will work on some real life examples if there is a way. If you need give me a call at the shop and we can chat about it.

Thanks

Brad

 

^ Standing ovation for your last 4-5 posts

 

Here you go:





RJM

 

The graphs are oversimplified. A good basic idea, but not exactly correct.

The linear graph is not so much a piston design with shims stacked onto the piston. That graph is based more on a piston with a single port and no shims.

Once you begin stacking shims, the damping curves are altered.

ICON is posting about two different concepts. A digressive piston, upon which the shims are placed and a linear piston.

Depending upon how the shims are stacked, crossovered, or stop plated will determine how the shock performs.

So far, very little has been offered other than call and talk with Dylan.

In regards to the compression adjuster, unless Icon has something new and revolutionary, the compression adjuster is in simple terms going to be a freebleed adjustable metering port, in parallel with a shim stack. Tuning of the compression adjuster is important to better match the main piston and stacks, but often can be a more general setting since the compression adjuster sees flows a fraction of the main piston.

I would suspect that any shock cutaway from Icon is pretty typical of any other high performance shock.

These are not bypass style shocks, so they closely are related to the rear shock on almost all modern high performance motorcycles.

I agree, nothing posted to date and nothing short of specific valve stacks is anything more than basic gas shock 101.

I will be buying shocks for all four corners soon. The broken upper shock mount would be a more focus for me.

PK

 

Guys I'm here to work with you and do the best I can to offer additional support. ICON is here offering direct effort to you with an emphasis on listening to the community and their desires in products. It is important to us to produce products with features you desire as much as the product concepts we think of. I am taking all the wants about items back to the team, and then will work on getting some solid display materials / examples for what it is being discussed. I did not really see much issue with what was being asked, so again I will work on all that first. The call to Dylan I still think someone with some experience should make. I think someone would enjoy the education he can offer at minimum.

Thanks

Brad

 

For a fully armored Taco, what weight of spring would be best?
2.5" lift if that matters..

 

700#

 

Didnt even look my bad, So what would you say Jason? 6 or 650?

 

Sweet, Thanks guys.

 

ICONREP

Sometimes it is a tough crowd. Myself, it would be great to talk with Dylan, however the place would be an informal time and probably over lunch.

From what I read here, there are a few of us with experience working on suspension products and damper internals. Nothing ICON has posted or presented seems crazy out of the ordinary.

As mentioned, the needle fill port for the N2, it works but is not a preferred means to charge the dampers.

The aluminum top hat should be properly designed or fabricated from quality steel.

Me personally, I would like to know what materials the damper body and rezzy bodies, plus other external items are made from and how they are protected from corrosion. Not everyone lives in a dry location so this could play a part in what someone decides to purchase.

In your defense, Fox has conflicting data or vague data explaining this also.

If time permits, I'll see about sending a PM or email with detailed questions. This will allow ICON to answer them more accurate and at a better pace.

PK

 

What would you guys recommend...picking up some used Fox 2.0 coilovers with Resi's...goin to send to DSMS for a rebuild...was goin to throw some new springs on a well...have a 2011 prerunner with just a plated Avid bar on the front...but have plans in the near future for either an ARB or Pelfreybuilt plate bumper...and shortly afterwords a winch...would 600# work for now as its still going to be roughly 3-6 months before I start looking for bumpers...