Do you Care if James Holmes is "Insane"

your above post is a reasonable position.

except for the: "appetite by the taxpayer to increase funding for healthcare" part.

appetite or not...the "affordable health care act" (Obamacare) will cost 2.7 trillion over 10 years (latest gov. estimates). up from the 900 billion that was origionally sold to the congress to pass the bill...and most agree it will cost even more than the 2.7 trillion.

as far as the "just lock them up" arguement...

I'm not saying that is my position, I only posted what was historically factual. some believe, the increase in shootings and other evil acts by those claiming to be insane...is due to the lack if incarceration.

and the connection to the thread.

 

Isn't the " Obamacare " legislation , more geared toward subsidizing people's ability to afford healthcare rather than actively dedicating money to a specific type of care ? In this case , mental healthcare ?

I don't know the answer to that .

 

it's not what "I" think...it's what a professional in the business of clinical psychology thinks.

I still fail to see the connection to constitutionalality and political correctnesss. you will have to provide a much clearer example where: "Constitutional and politically correct are sometimes the same thing"

and, while you are at it...you could support your position by convincing me where the constitution protects the clinically insane from institutionalization.

 

I don't believe anyone knows the answer.

Nancy Pelosi: "we won't know what's in the 2000 page bill until we pass it"

 

If you're referencing rights, which you should probably come out of the closet with what ever your trying to say, the government may be obligated to give them to you, but it is also with in their power to take them away from you.

The government has made so many cop-outs for itself, rights may as well be called privileges nowadays, much like a drivers license.

So, if someone has proven to be not suitable to society, be that from a mass shooting or a 10+ page rap sheet, I think with out a doubt institutionalize someone if not given them the needle.

 

I guess you'll have to give me an example of what you consider "politically correct" Larry.

In general if the Supreme Court says it is Constitutional and someone think it is a "politically correct" ruling you have my example.

Some think that accepting Gays/Lesbians as part of humanity is "politically correct, yet courts find it constitutional and we dont criminalize it, like many would want and had in the past.

 

To play your game, show me where I said the clinically insane can't be institutionalized.

Prove to me that it was "politically correct" actions that reduced the incarceration you think should be done. Many think it was budget cuts.

 

Guy, don't try to change the subject in an effort to win an argument - calling others ignorant in the process. Employers, or health care benefits offered by employers, have nothing whatsoever to do with what we've been talking about in this thread (criminals, criminal insanity, etc). Stick to the subject you yourself brought up - keeping wacko criminals alive so they can be studied. You haven't presented one reliable argument to support that premise.

 

Uhh it has everything to do with the subject. The question asked by the OP was "Do you care if James Holmes is insane." That then shifted to talk about insanity and mental health. It's become pretty obvious that most people in this thread don't at all understand anything about mental health, care or awareness.

I'm not necessarily saying we should "lock people up to learn from them." I think one comes from the other. I do not think a person deemed unable to tell right from wrong should be executed. I think they should be locked up for life, preferably in a mental health institution. The learning will come naturally. I definitely didn't bring the subject up.

Employers not providing mental health care coverage has everything to do with the subject. As that is why we, USA, are last place in awareness and treatment when compared to most other 1st world countries. I'm saying that lack of awareness in today's society is exactly why we are seeing some of the horrendous things we are seeing. That and the dead people do well on the nightly news thing.

To me mental health issues are just like cancer issues. Another major medical issue but for two major differences. People with cancer aren't laughed at and shunned by society and we're actually trying to understand and cure the whole cancer thing.

The most concerning, but laughable and expected, aspect of this whole thread is the people willing to walk all over and toss out the bill of rights but think the 2nd amendment untouchable and that we shouldn't question it.

 

needs to be put in a mental hospitals

 

Kill him like he did all those poor people!!! He is scum!

 

If someone is bi-polar or suffers from depression, then absolutely they need the help of a mental health professional and ideally, they should get that care. If someone decides to indiscriminately kill people, whether they have mental health issues or not, they deserve to loose their life period. Did their mom or dad abuse them? Did they have some traumatic event in their past that impacted them? That would be horrible if it were true, but it does not excuse coddling a mass murderer. Many people are victims of unspeakable crimes, but learn to overcome it - some with professional help and others without it - without resorting to murder. Will killing them dissuade someone else from trying the same thing? Maybe, maybe not, but it can be guaranteed that this individual will not do it again if he is executed.

Frankly, if for some reason I went off the deep end and did something like this, I would not want to regain my senses only to comprehend what I had done. Much kinder all the way around to remove the threat to the public once and for all.

 

Colombian neck tie

 

You lost me at "coddling a mass murderer." I'm not against the death penalty if the scenario deserves it. But, I don't think life in prison or life in a mental health institution is coddling by any stretch of the imagination. There are lots, much more than not, of scenarios where a person kills another person(s) and doesn't get executed.

I get the feeling that a lot of you think this, which is weird to me. Societies all over the world, and some states, have outlawed the death penalty. Do you really think life in a maximum security prison, or hospital, is peaches?

Sometimes I think keeping a person alive is more of a punishment.

 

If they are sane enough to go to prison, they are sane enough to face the death penalty. Regardless, to me it is "coddling" to give them three hot meals and a place to sleep on the public's dime when they have committed such a heinous crime. I realize some states and countries have outlawed the death penalty, but this thread was supposed to be our opinion not a treatise on what the laws are in different locales. Additionally, I specified that the death penalty in a case such as this (premeditated mass murder) is justified. I realize there are cases where someone causes the death of another that the death penalty would not be warranted. I was/am speaking in the very narrow band of the crime (or similar crime) that was originally being discussed.

 

No but I do care if he was brain washed and used by the government

 

Oh, really? Perhaps you should read back a bit. His comments, which I initially replied to, were a direct response to my comments (to another) about murderers having already been studied for decades and how it's fairly clear at this point there isn't a magical formula which will prevent what they do.

He responded to that by calling me ignorant and, in an effort to prove that, changed the subject to teens committing suicide, drugs, alcohol, and more. Perhaps you can explain how teens committing suicide (etc) has anything whatsoever to do with murderers being studied.

When I responded, he switched the subject yet again to employee mental health care, which again has nothing to do with murderers being studied.

I have no desire to talk about mental health care in this country. This thread is about a murderer now claiming to be insane. Everyone who kills could be considered crazy to some extent, but the issue here is legal insanity. In my opinion, this murderer does not meet the definition of that. Further, murderers have and are being studied (our prisons are full of them), so this (study) isn't a good argument for keeping even more alive. It certainly isn't an argument for keeping this murderer alive.

 

He planned the crime for weeks. Insane people don't do that.
His apartment was rigged with explosives all over the place because he planned for the cops to come in and search his place after his attacks. They figured it out and entered via the outside 2nd story window. Insane people don't plan that either.
I have friends that have family hurt (but not killed in that attack).
A lot of them can't go into a movie theatre again. They start to shake.
There is good in people, and there is also tremendous evil.
You'll notice shooters never attack police stations or gun shows. They are true cowards.
When we outlaw guns in schools, churches, etc., that is where the cowards will attack.