F@#%@#g abs almost killed me

Going 40 on a gravel road at night isn't a bright idea. Gravel road signage isn't set to a standard like a highway or a freeway. Deer jump out, rocks roll off of ledges drunks roll over and more. Perhaps trucks can even handle 70 on a gravel road,( I know you didn't say that ...just for example) you still have to be able to manage a safe stop. Also speed limit is top speed , no guarantees you can go that fast because its posted.

Best story I seen on that was a Suburu trying to go 45-50, when I pulled over where the road stopped being maintained... he shot past and immediately cracked his oil pan on a domed rock and high centered. We have to face the consequences of our actions sooner or later.

 

I absolutely love ABS brakes. Works great in most conditions. However, since each ABS-equipped vehicle is slightly different, I did have to adapt a bit to each. Actually, every vehicle really requires a bit of getting used to, whatever the braking system. Anyway, with the Tacoma*, if the brakes lock up on slick surfaces ("the limits of the gripping performance"), pump the brakes (let off the pedal & reapply) and keep doing so until you stop. This is obviously different than normal ABS braking, but similar to stopping with regular, non-ABS, brakes on slick surfaces. If you don't have enough time to do that, you would't have enough time to pump regular, non-ABS, brakes either.

*From the owners manual (you were warned)…
....• The ABS does not operate effectively when
.........• The limits of the gripping performance have been reached.
.........• The vehicle hydroplanes while driving at high speed on the wet or slick road.

 

Not to get into a pissing match, I see your valid points. But isn't the point of modern ABS braking systems to not to have to pump the pedal? I believe there are many situations that can benefit from the ABS systems on our trucks. I also see the need for a manual override, which is why I have a ABS kill switch.

 

^^ The key words in my comment, and the manual (quoted), are "limits of the gripping performance have been reached." At that point, you obviously have to resort to a different tactic than just blindly depending on the ABS brakes. Not begrudging your use of an ABS kill switch, but I wouldn't do it (especially when it's easy enough to just change the way I brake in such conditions).

 

I do see your point. Different driving styles, suspension set-ups, tires, driving surface, etc. do have a significant impact on the ''gripping performance'' of the stock braking system. Sometimes I find that the road conditions I am involved with are handled better by stock ABS, and some bring out the woeful inadequacies of it. I respect your choice of not modifying the ABS system, instead your own driving habits.

 

Whos going to be going 40MPH in 4-low?

 

If what you said is true ( here is a quote ): " While I COULD steer, its pretty useless cause no matter how you turn your tires, you're gonna go straight at that speed on dirt. "

ABS or not it would not have mattered by what you are saying. I wasn't there I'm just going by your words.

Maybe you could blame it on the County Government as they posted the speed limit too high for that curve.

 

Posted speed limit isn't a recommendation or safety guarantee, simply based on day and dry conditions a top speed overall. A 35 posted mph for example is the road overall, a black and white regulation sign.
A yellow curve sign (warning) would have a smaller sign posting a recommended speed, still they aren't saying its ok to go that speed anytime and the driver has no blame, just a guidance.
That speed is not what you have to go. The signs aren't saying its safe at that speed at all times.
The will often lower speeds as people have accidents, that doesn't prove it was unsafe, simply that people cited for speed causing an accident, makes for a prudent reduction to prevent more accidents.
That's the point when the comments come out like " they artificially lower the speed limit to generate revenue"... but no police are enforcing it. Go figure.

 

ABS increases stopping distances especially in low traction conditions

There can be no arguement about that

 

Yea, we get some fresh snow, eventually packed snow access roads we drive for elk season. I'ts not fun or always needed to put some chains on just to go down a hill if you can build a slight snow pile.

 

I understand all the arguments and here's my worthless .02.....

When I bought my Taco in January I treated it like every other vehicle ever purchased - tested the tires/brakes/driveline .
Jump on the throttle hard , note traction - check .
Tires break loose easily (POS fukn Rugged Trails) - check .
Test ABS system - yep, it allows the damned thing to just keep going with a seriously disturbing lack of braking power - check .

Drive accordingly - check .

I've had several times the abs kicks in way too aggressively and yes it's an issue that the manufacturers somehow should address - can't agree on that one enough .
That said , tires are a huge factor - learned that one quickly after swapping out the junk Goodyear highway treads for Yoko's Geo ATS on my Dakota , it would almost hurt you stopping so hard even in wet conditions . The Taco will probably get the same tire here damned soon , I want something I can trust .

One other thing -
I haven't yet tried but after straining my dead-old eyes reading all these posts on the ABS I will be trying the pump-the-shit-out-of-it method next time it's wet out and see if that will make a difference . I know pulling into a parking spot on a light skiff of snow and the damned truck wanting to just plow ahead with the pedal to the floor is bullshit , knocking it into neutral did seem to help at the time but I'd like more tests to determine the best reaction overall - pump/no-pump .

Ramble off ,
Sarge

 

In more conditions than not, yes it does. In my limited six month experience with the Toyota ABS system, I have run into a few situations where it has been more beneficial to override the factory ABS. These situations have been duplicated multiple times in conditions on the same stretch of road in mostly snow and ice ABS on and ABS off. I have found that my particular setup suspension and tire wise handle my situations better without ABS than with. In no way am I saying that no ABS is better, merely stating that in some situations it has it's benefits.

 

:shakeshead: I love how people always blame the driver. "oh you must not have experience in snow" "going too fast" etc...

I had my ABS kick in going 5 mph or maybe a little less down a slight grade, stopping behind a car at a light with maybe an inch or so of slush, and I was just about to stop, and ABS decided, "oh your slipping". I almost rear ended this car, because of it. Stopped 5 maybe 6 feet further than I would of, if they didn't kick in.

With that said, I have never had any issues, on dry or wet roads. (knock on wood)

 

BTW------

Just as an example of what modern abs systems can/cannot do - I've been rear-ended twice in my old '77 FJ40 , once in snow , second time in rain . No damage to the 40 but the Ford minivan and nearly new Honda both suffered some decent damage . The old 40 just has the stock brakes and really dry rotted/hard old 33" MT's , both accidents were just people braking early for no reason so I had to stop fairly hard . Never slid a wheel , either .
Sarge

 

IBTL

Yeah another pissing match!

I will still stand by with the fact that people that have problems with ABS don't know how to brake.

Both 2 gens I have had worked great in the snow and what ever. Brakes always work great. In snow, slush, mud, gravel.

I think the main thing is you need to test it in all conditions and learn what to do and what not to do.

Anyway piss on

 

Like I stated above, it was tested multiple times in the same conditions. I found what worked best for me with my set-up. I do in fact know how to brake. With auto cross and rally school experience in my non ABS '02 STI, and 9 years daily driving a ECORS spec purpose built YJ, I know how to modulate the brake pedal. Admittedly not so good with the skinny one. Glad you enjoy the factory ABS. To each his or her own.

 

I feel like your trolling, but once again, blame the driver. There's no way it could possibly be a bad design, right?

How am I braking wrong, creeping to a stop, and ABS decides to kick in?

School me, please.

 

One of the long time members here that get a bunch of snow should start a poll to see how many guys used the ABS kill mod to rectify the braking problem with Toyotas ABS system .
As stated above in my post , I would hate to see any TW member hurt or killed . Its only a matter of time ............do the MOD !!!

I would do the poll but i am new to the forum and dont have the seniority and trust that older members have .

 

This is part of the reason why I got rid of my Tacoma.

 

I don't think anyone here would WANT another member to get hurt. Trying to state that it is just a matter of time before someone does is just plain silly. This complaint about the ABS has been going on for YEARS and nobody has died as a result. It is not a "matter of time" in the grand scheme. Hell, If you want to take that stand point then I could say it is just a matter of time before someone on TW dies because of off-roading, so we better all stop doing it! I have held the general standpoint since I joined any of these discussions that each truck, and their setup, from tires to lifts to any other mods, can, and will have a different reaction in the ABS system. This also includes driver skill. Is the Tacoma system more sensitive than others? Considering the number of people who complain about it, that is possible. Does it make the ABS system bad or dangerous? If it did, I would think the feds would have stepped in long ago considering they do extensive testing all the time and issue recall orders for safety on an ongoing basis. AGAIN, the ABS system IS NOT DESIGNED TO MAKE YOU STOP FASTER. So guess what...DON'T FOLLOW SO CLOSE WHEN YOU HAVE NOTICED YOUR TRUCK DOES THIS. Brake a little earlier. Pay attention to how your truck acts on different road conditions. If something seems abnormal, check your truck for problems. Are your tires oversized? Well the ABS system does not know this. Do you have a lift? Again, your ABS system does not know you installed a lift. New springs with a different spring rate? Helper springs? All of these things WILL affect how your ABS system operates, because the software does not know that you have done any mods to your truck. That being said, yes, I am aware that not everyone having issues with the ABS system has changed things out. Regardless, the number of issues DOES affect it. I have seen worn tires on a Cadillac cause an ABS system to engage when going down the road. Fix? We replaced the tires. The system does what it is designed to do. I can be driving 2MPH on a icy road, and if I hit an ice patch, ABS or regular brakes are not going to stop me either way!