F@#%@#g abs almost killed me

Bill, I have to say I'm sorry. I sometimes get wound up too easily. I will give you some information on my truck. 2012 dclb stock wheels & tires no lift all stock except for ARE cap. At first I was thinking program but if that were the case every Tacoma would do it and some people have no problems at all. It wouldn't be faulty wheel speed sensors it would throw a code. I am leaning toward a faulty ABS block because of the release of 90-95% of braking power. The best way I can describe the feeling is like blowing a front brake line or front brake hose. I don't think that an ABS system should release that much braking pressure. With a 4.0L and an automatic when braking power is reduced the motor and tranny tend to push you and it seem like you accelerate. I have been driving for 30 years in the snow in PA. What do you think?

 

It's not a theory that stopping distances are increased on loose traction surfaces with ABS , it's a fact

 

Agree ^^

 

OZ, with all due respect, have you done a comparison test, has anyone done a comparison test ABS vs. non-ABS with the Tacoma?

I'll do the comparison on that same road I attached above, just tell me how you want the ABS disabled. If I go in the ditch I figure I'll be able to get out of it, no sweat.

 

Knock yourself out

 

I would actually be quite interested in some camparisons if you are willing to take the time. The difficulty will be matching ALL aspects of driving with ABS active, and ABS disabled, but I would be curious. For a semi-controlled test, let's look at the following:
2 different road conditions: Muddy and dry dirt.
2 different locations: Downhill, and level surface.
2 different truck settings: ABS active and ABS disabled
2 different speeds: 15 MPH and 40 MPH

Drive truck as you see fit, and apply brakes hard, as in a panic type stop, and mark skid distance. Though ABS will work on keeping wheels unlocked, the dirt road should indicate signs of where the brakes were first hit. Do the same for all the above conditions. One of the other things I would like to see is lateral loss. With the steering wheel straight, measure or give us some indication of how far left/right your truck moved from center. Remember that during braking do NOT turn the wheel. (Obviously if there is any kind of danger involved, do what you need to)

All this being said, I will state that you do this at your own risk, and agree that you will not hold me responsible in any way on the results. You wreck your truck, it is your OWN fault...lol.

No problem Hugh, everyone gets wound up at times. Even me. ARE cap would actually give you some weight, and should increase your rear traction. May not be a faulty sensor, BUT I have seen some bad sensors that were borderline, and would cause unwanted ABS activation, but still pass the internal diagnostics. The diagnostics measures resistance and signal. That is is. Metal filings can cause erratic signals, even without setting a code. As for the feeling of total brake loss pressure, when the ABS goes active, your foot pressure does not affect braking pressure, unless you release the pedal, so while your pedal may feel like it has zero brake force, the ABS system is capable of applying several hundred PSI to the brakes. You just won't feel it. So while it still may be a problem in the control block, the likelyhood is low, since all 8 of the pressure supply AND pressure release solenoids would have to be failing. Not a high chance. I think what is needed is the ABS signal data for your truck. You wouldn't happen to have a friend with a scan tool would you? Not the little one, but a professional one like I have at the shop.

With all my advent on the ABS systems, and my personal feelings that the system is better than nothing at all, I will say that if you DO choose to disable the ABS, the above listed post would be the one I would support. Don't just pull the ABS fuse, because you disable more than just the ABS.

As I mentioned above in response to your other post, See what you can do with that. As for disabling the system, since we are just doing it for a test, temporarily removing the ABS fuse will suffice. Thanks.

 

You forgot snow

Test it in snow

Remember that's what the OP of this thread is about ?

 

Your test is not necessary. It's been proven by scientific study that ABS increases stopping distance on snow and slippery surfaces. If you search TW you will find numerous reports of individuals who report stopping issues with ABS on snow/ice or slippery / washboard roads. The collective experience reported here is not an anomaly and should not be denied or discounted.

OZ is correct here. And this should not be new information for anybody unless they are a new young driver. A half hour of searching the Internet for reputable source will clearly show this.

More:

Also:

 

Crom.... your facts are getting in the way of belief. Local Loop, states that no one has ever died from an engineering decision, as all engineer are both perfect and cannot make mistakes. It is simply impossible.

Second the ABS system has not caused that increase. It is coincidence that once ABS was introduced, 34% of people just got stupider and it is all their fault for being stupid, and not engineers.

 

no I did not state that at all.

trying to undermine what I say, by being completely incorrect
about what I did post, is not getting you a ticket out of chumptown

anyway, I so want to stop looking in this thread, but I seem to be unable to do so...

bottom line, OP, subject line of this thread:
No, your ABS did not try to kill you. You are doing it to yourself.
If you think a problem is severe enough that you may get killed by
it, stop using the vehicle and have it towed back to Toyota for a refund

 

I am in the south, so abs for the win for me. I have only had it kick in once, on black ice. I removed my foot from the brake, and put the truck in neutral, verified there was nothing coming in the intersection and ran through it. With that said, I have seen many marvelous well engineered products turn to shit. The idea that an engineers idea trumps an accountant is just a non-starter.

If Toyota can save some green on any short cut they will. All companies will. If less then 10% of tacaomaworld users have an issues, and we represent less then 1% of all users; then any lawsuit would be in the accepted range.

My point is the OP could be correct that his driving is not the cause. He could be wrong. But the firm belief he has to be wrong because abs is infallible, based purely on some engineer designed it, is also wrong.

Chumptown is full of non-believers. I like my truck, I just don't drink the nuclear water out of Japan.

 

I remember what it was about, I just don't recall that he was going to have any snow fall in the near future! lol.

 

Then the super scientific ABS / no ABS debate test needs to be postponed

 

energy is better spent trying to recruit petitioners to have lawmakers
ratify a change to the existing laws if enough people KNOW there is a problem

You cannot 'feel' or 'think' ABS is a problem, you need hard scientific facts
and be able to present them to the powers-that-be, to initiate change in
the laws or methods.

everyone has an opinion, none of these slacktivists here have hard data,
so this thread is still just armchair masturbation on the issue.

Me, I don't really care. I will learn the systems built into the Tacoma and
deal with them, not fight them.


go nuts people, rally the troops and get some actual legislative work
done, or an engineering change at Toyota...just something other than piss about it
http://bit.ly/YANV4T

 

OK

Bye

 

Not really. He can give me the data I am looking for as far as dirt and muddy roads, then if someone else has some snow around are cares to do the same test, I can get that information.

 

Well, I'm interested now in doing a controlled test with my truck on the same road. Should be muddy in a few days.

 

Yeah, I'll give it a try as you said on the post further above. I'm curious now about how MY TRUCK does in a low-traction situation. I haven't noticed anything anywhere near the problems some people have had on snow, packed snow, ice under snow, slush.

Maybe I can quantify somewhat, provide some data. I guess I'll just pull the ABS fuse for this experiment.