F@#%@#g abs almost killed me

Funny how those who try to bash the supporters of ABS do not realize that we all didn't live down south for our entire lives.

If you don't like what is said, you are welcome to leave the thread. No need to ask it to be closed to simply please you.

 

This has been my experience, and I agree. I am not happy with the Tacoma's ABS.

While I appreciate statistical studdies, I will not second guess my personal experience for them.

As long as we have 'experts' paid the big bucks to make our vehicles safer, we will have new and 'improved' safety features. This is fine, but I think we can expect that there will be both successes and gaffes along the way. It is not far-fetched to consider that toyota failed to properly test the Tacoma's ABS in particular conditions.

Personally, I feel safer with my own experience and skills in navigating adverse road conditions than I do relying this ABS system. Clearly others who are passionate about their Tacomas feel the same way. If Toyota fails to recognize and address this, what good are these reports in the end?

 

You should probably read the whole thing before posting parts of it. That report you posted says there was a reduction in car vs car accidents and later says the stats are probably due to the small number of cars studied. The overall conclusion of the report is that abs works better than no abs.

Oz,
I don't think anybody is arguing that it increases stopping distance in some situations, at least I'm not.

 

FTFY

 

some situations including snow , which is the situation the OP describes in this thread

The rest of the ABS discussion is off topic to the Op

Just sayin

 

I totally understand. My only real point in this thread was to show that, ABS can in certain situations like the OP's be dangerous because the operator can't stop the vehicle, and therefore becomes an enormous safety issue. It's a classic case of the computer [Skid Control ECU] denying the operator [driver] the right of decision.

ABS has it's place, like on the highway or expressway, and in fair weather. But I don't think it really belongs off-road, or when the road had variable textured surface conditions like snow & ice or is covered in a very loose aggregate.

If you carefully reread my post you'll see that, that was the only point I was making. [ABS increases stopping distances on snow / icy / wet conditions. PERIOD.]

 

(Snipped for simplification)

I have never argued the fact that it increases stopping distance. As a matter of fact I as well as Oz have both stated that it does increase stopping distance. What I have been trying to explain is that the purpose of ABS is to allow a driver to maintain steering control when they otherwise would not if the wheels locked up, NOT to stop your vehicle faster. I do not understand what you are trying to argue against me here.

As for the surface for using ABS, it is actually the most effective, for what it is truly designed for, on slippery, low traction areas. Specifically snow/ice/wet conditions. On these low traction surfaces it allows a driver to maintain steering control that he would NOT have otherwise. This permits a driver to not lose total control of the vehicle, resulting in going off a guardrail, or sliding off the road into a tree or sidewalk. Does it extend stopping distance? Yes. Nobody here is trying to say it doesn't. Does it allow a driver control of the direction of the vehicle when ABS is active? YES, for that is it's purpose. NOT to try and stop the vehicle faster.

 

Wrong. ABS was designed to help in panic situation on dry surface.

Not on loose and snow/ice surface. If you lockup wheels on a rough surface and then you release brakes, it will regain control instantly.

If you are on a glare ice and you brake, four wheels will lock-up, because they stopped at the same time, and you are skidding. Been there, done that.

On Tacoma however, ABS activates when I wasn't in panic situation. In fact, It activates when I don't expect it. Trust is lost on this system and I remove ABS fuse each winter. I've rode other cars with ABS system and they are OK. On Tacoma (2006), it's just too sensitive. We also have Santa Fe car, on the same area at the same speed and same winter tires (Bridgestone Blizzak and they are new), this car will stop on a dime WITH ABS while Tacoma doesn't stop at all. Even at lower speed than Santa Fe!

According to NHTSA (study was made on 2009):

Why?

Their answer:

Yeah right.

Why don't you ask companies to put a fricking "ABS Disable" button, like we can have "ESP/VSC/Others Disable" button. And stop playing with our lives.

ABS isn't THE answer on all situations.

 

Did a test just now since it's 19 degrees F and snowing. Only took the one pic, and it's hard to see the ABS side (it's on the left). The tracks on the right are with the ABS fuse pulled.

I did this at 15 MPH, and definitely had longer stopping distance with ABS enabled. How much more? Probably 25% more. You can see the lines marked for parking spots, and the truck went about 2 parking spaces further with ABS enabled.

That's mashing down hard to get the ABS to engage, clutch disengaged. On the other hand, NOT mashing down hard but going easy on the brake pedal with ABS enabled I was stopping about the same distance. Again, that's with pushing the clutch in, which is what I did for each test.

I did some more tests at higher speeds (30 MPH and 40 MPH) in a subdivision under construction, I don't have a picture for that, but it was about the same result - apx. 25% longer stopping distance with ABS enabled.

This is with the stock Dunlop AT20's, 13k miles on them.

Do I feel unconfident with ABS enabled? No, not really. But yeah, an ABS kill switch is a nice option to have and I'll do it.

 

I'm with the OP - when the ABS does kick in on slick pavement it removes way too much braking pressure - at least on MY truck . I'm seriously wondering if there is a possible difference or issue with the valving system in some of these trucks . I drove a different '09 awhile back and the brakes acted totally different than mine on wet asphalt .
Sarge

 

At the end of the day. The system is operating as designed. Incidents happen when people aren't aware if how the system will operate in given conditions.

Does tacoma abs suck in very slick conditions. Yep. Does it help jn others yep...

Ultimately it is drivers error unless the system fails... The problem is everyone gets all butt Hurt if you say drivers error. It doesn't mean you're an idiot (sometimes its implied). It means the driver didnt do the right thing with the tools they had. In the ops case and many other members cases the error was that they didn't know how the system would react. They made an assumption ( and a reasonable one) that the system would stop the truck in those conditions. Not their fault and hopefully they learned and will recognize those conditions when they arise again...

As others have mentioned. Practice. Not used to snow. Make a quick stop or two on a clear road before you have to at an intersection.

 

Sorry, but you are the one who is wrong. Do the research. It was designed to help maintain control of a vehicle when loss of traction occurs on un-even or slippery surfaces.

Good test. Thanks for that bit of information. From the skid marks it appears as thought you did definitely stop on a longer distance with ABS enabled, but the tracks are straight and true, indicating full control, where there appears to be a spot on the non-ABS side where some loss of control was evident, and lateral movement of what appears to be about 2 feet?

 

How about we all now agree a selectable ABS disable switch provides the best solution to this problem

 

Yeah, like you say and Sarge above also, you have to figure out where the threshold is for when the ABS engages for your truck. A full on mashdown panic stop vs. light pressure on the brake pedal. I know posters above have said you have to resist the impulse to go full mashdown.

When I did the tests today, I could see the "pulse" marks in the snow when I mashed down to get the ABS to engage. There was pavement and some snowplow effect, then the ABS would relieve the brake pressure and the tires were back to riding on top of the snow, then another pulse where the tires were digging down to the pavement again, and so on and so on.

I don't have pics, but at 30 mph the tire tracks were showing pulses about every 10" of travel. Remarkably straight and true steering, but longer stopping distance.

 

Oh yeah, there was certainly that yaw factor with the ABS fuse pulled. That parking lot is canted to the right of the picture, and you see how the truck skidded at 15 MPH with the fuse pulled.

 

That's fine with me. Nice option to have.

 

Hooo ray

 

Yes, I did research and they sucks on rough surface.

Did you know that Jeep added "ABS Offroad" button in their Jeep ?

It was designed on a pavement and NHTSA implicity agreed on this:

Read between lines.

In other words, when I'm slowly braking before a stop sign, ABS shouldn't activate. Let me stop, even skid a little (1-2 feet), but let me stop. This is how ABS on Santa Fe reacts, Hyundai understood it and ABS is much less sensitive than on Tacoma (at least, 2006 models). Of course, this is not perfect, but better than nothing.

Sure, you can have control, but it's not better when you can't stop...

Having a "ABS Off" button on some situation is a nice plus.

If we can have ESP/ESC/VSC off button, which means that it couldn't be perfect in all situations, why not ABS ?

 

Toyota has a similar system

 

Didn't know that. Thank you.

Maybe one day, it will be standard on all vehicle...