Synthetic oil

Motul 300V 5w-30

 

The dealer that I bought my truck from uses Penzoil...so I will stick with that..it is also a couple bucks cheaper at Wally world than Mobile 1 or the other brands.

 

you know what makes up the bulk of synthetic oil>>.?

Dino oil, it has been chemically stripped, then enhanced with additives..

Up until a few days ago I thought it was really all synthetic (ie, man made with different ingredients) until I took 4 gallons in to recycle, all oil went into same container.....so when I got homey I did some research....

so much for saving the environment....

still, I use it faithfully...

 

So you based your assumption on the fact that all of the "trash" goes into the same container?

Recycled oil is sold as recycled oil. It is not separated by type and grade.
Those tanks contained everything from 0w20 to 20w50, and a goodly amount of ATF, diff lube, and brake fluid, even though you aren't supposed to dump those fluids into the container.

There are a number of levels of "synthetic", and thanks to the Castrol/Mobil-1 lawsuit, the line is further blurred.

Group-III synthetics begin as conventional base stocks, but they have been hydrocracked and are molecularly identical to Group-IV synthetic products.
This was the basis of the Castrol lawsuit, Mobil lost, and Castrol, Valvoline, Shell, and others had the right to market Group-III base stocks as "synthetic"

To remain price-competitive, Mobil-1 and Amsoil began blending SOME Group-III base stocks into SOME of their products.

I have seen a HUGE difference in viscosity stability comparing Mobil-1 motorcycle and Mobil-1 automotive products.
Royal Purple didn't hold up any better than Castrol GTX.
This is most likely due to their higher percentage of Group-III base stocks in the blend.

But to say that modern synthetics are "dino" and not "man-made" is quite an oversimplification of reality. Even the cheap Supertech synthetic at Walmart is a superior product to conventional Pennzoil.

 

Remind me to NEVER get into a argument over different types of oil with you lol. It sound's like you know what the hell your talking about.

 

I did a lot of research and spent a lot of money doing used (and virgin) oil analysis on my motorcycle.
Short story... Yes, I use only motorcycle-specific full synthetic.
Either Mobil-1 or Amsoil MCV.
They both remained in grade (50wt) to 6,000 miles.
Everything else (20w50, or 15w50) had broken down to a 30wt within 2000 miles... including Royal Purple 20w50, and Mobil-1 15w50.

 

I was in the petroleum business for years and I have never found any real benefit from using synthetic in the standard engine. Mostly the claims are hype. Unless the climate is extremely cold, (below -20) on a regular bases or the engine oil for some reason is running above normal manufacture temperature synthetic is little more then hype and a draw on the bank account.
In the end each to their own, but there has never been a single study done that proves synthetic will aid in longer engine life in the street vehicle and claims without a scientific study are just that, claims without proof.

 

Then why are synthetic oils installed by the factory, and REQUIRED for many vehicles... including most current Toyota 4 cylinder engines.

If there was no difference, the manufacturer would save money and not use it at the factory.
One of the benchmarks that manufacturers strive to be "#1" in is the JD Powers "Cost of ownership". That is why materials have been changed that have pushed tune-up intervals to 100k... because the Powers surveys cover the first 36 months of ownership... the 100k major service interval removes the usual costly maintenance items such as plugs, coolant, and transmission service from the first 3 years for most people.

But synthetic oil is MORE costly. And not all manufacturers specify longer OCI for all models. Specifying synthetic oil increases the 36 month cost of ownership.

There is a difference, whether you agree with it or not.

 

Hello Rich. The manufacturers of the synthetic pay the auto industry to install and or call for synthetic oil. It is good advertising.
Like I said it is each to their own, but there is absolutely no scientific data showing that synthetic will help a standard engine run longer. The major difference in using synthetic and conventional oil is the added draw on the bank account with synthetic.

 

My buddy has a 2006 Tundra with 386,000 miles on it. Runs perfect, all he does
is the dealer maintenance when required. Not sure what oil they use for his vehicle but my 2010 Tundra required Synthetic Oil when the dealer serviced it.

 

I have a vehicle with nearly 400,000 , miles and it has only had dino in it and it does not use any oil and that is my point. People can choose and do as they like, but there needs to be an understanding that there is no scientific empirical data proving that synthetic makes a vehicle last longer. As I said the manufacturers specify certain oils based on how much the oil manufacturer will pay them for using it not because there is any data proving it is needed.
The truth is I wish that there was scientific proof that synthetic offered longer engine life that would justify its use, but it is just not out there. If it was I would use it.

 

The amsoil site has worked out their price to be cheaper than conventional. That is if you use their full synthetic and their filters and run them to the recommend mileage. The added convenience of much less frequent oil changes is a nice bonus as well. I'm not concerned about the oil holding up over these extended service intervals , it tests better than any other oil out there. My concern is about the filter. Apparently the filter will trap fine particles as small as 20 microns almost twice as well as a standard Toyota filter according to their tests. They say 15,000 miles is fine on it , even in "severe" conditions. My question is, how bunged up are these filters near the end of their life?
I still need to do more research on it but i'm thinking about making the switch, just not sure about going so long between oil changes.

 

Except that to run Amsoil to the "recommended" change intervals, you need a $300 bypass filtration system, and need to run UOA every 12k (and change the filters).

And like I said before.... or maybe it was in another thread....

Extended OCI are used by oil salesmen to attempt to justify the increased cost to the consumer.
Extended OCI is not and never has been the primary benefit of synthetic oils.

1 - Better cold-flow performance
2 - Better film retention (benefits you every time you start the engine)
3 - Better viscosity retention at elevated temperatures - the reduced level of viscosity improvers needed in synthetics are more stable in shear, and allow a synthetic 5w40 to maintain the viscosity performance of a 15w40 conventional (Diesel engines only, just an example)
4 - Better resistance to coking - Coking is what forms the basis for sludge. It is also a critical feature for turbocharged engines, where the hot turbo is shut down and the oil flow stops and "cooks" in the bearings. Conventional oils will "coke" (not "cook") and leave carbon deposits which build up over time and lead to bearing failure.

#3 and #4 are the basis for the logic of running extended drain intervals.

 

Just got off the amsoil site and i didn't see any mention of their bypass system although I do know they have them.
For the" signature series 100% synthetic " with their" EA" filter:
Normal service - 25,000 miles but you need to change the filter once, or one year.
Severe service - 15,000 miles on one EA filter, or one year.
My understanding of the bypass system is that you can go much farther still.

www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/gasoline

Not sure if that link is good, my tablets a pain in the arse!, lol.
Anyway, thanks for the info Rich. Cold weather starts, better protection and less frequent service is my motivation for looking into this product. I'm sure that if there are savings to be had that they would be insignificant anyhow.

 

So I plan on switching to synthetic oil here soon. Gonna go with mobil 1. My question to you guys is do you change according to time, or mileage. Reason I ask is that, I was due for an oil change back in Feb if you go by time. however, I am just now coming up on 3000 miles, cause I only drive 14 miles a day. If I switch to synthetic, and go by mileage, I will be able to go probably a year between oil changes.

 

I'd be comfortable with 6 months or 5k.
Many are okay with a year, but driving so little, my concern is condensation build up. Synthetic does a lot of wonderful things, but mix with water and combustion by-product acids is not one of them. In that respect, the guy who only drives 5 miles to and from work is never getting his engine up to full operating temp and keeping it there long enough to boil these contaminants out of the oil.

 

You'll see equal benefit with whatever you choose in taking it out on the highway once a month

 

My drive to work is only 7 miles, but it's half city, half highway. I think it's getting up to operating temp, but knowing it might not be, I usually drive on weekends when the wife and I go out.

 

Does standard oil do better in regards to the bolded part?

 

^^^No.