I drew my weapon in self defense: Gun owners & Dog Walkers

If im not mistaken, one of those animals youre protecting yourself from are cougars? and those fuckers only attack people on the run or on bikes around here, so i say keep running with the gun. Its not like you were planning on using a gun to protect yourself from a domesticated dog, but your instincts kicked in when a possibly agressive dog was charging you. I guess you didnt need the gun for that specific situation but its what you had and you used it without harming anyone or anything and the situation was resolved. You were in the right. period.

 

honestly the actual confrontation details are way too vague. best I can tell the dog never actually attacked - generally they either do or don't. do not have an opinion on that - I will say that study after study shows carrying tends to lead to increased escalation of the situation.

 

Funny thing this. There is a High school that is at one end of the park I am violating the law every time I run past it. I think you can't bee with in 1000 yards of a school with a loaded gun.
Bit I normally run at night and school is out.. Still no reason to violate the law.
Just so others know Arizona you can carry locked and cocked. ie. I can carry my gun with one in the chamber.

It definably would have been unfortunate to shoot this dog. It was a good looking dog. If I saw it in the pound I would have adopted it. I am not for violence agents animals. Hence why I did not kick at it or try to punch it. I went defensive and held my ground. I would like to think if it went bad and it bit me and I shot I would not have sued. If it were my dog and I was in that situation I would not have jumped in front of my dog to save it. That guy had balls of steal. But I would have acceped it if some one shot my dog because i was irresponsible.

Again I have had other dogs run at me in this same park. This time just felt different.

100% My life and safety above a dog.

That's "Merica" to you damit!

 

First off, I feel that you were within your rights to do as you did. That being said I have but one comment/concern. In your post you stated

"Yet I see exactly where this is going. As soon as this dog sees me it lets out a big dog bark. The dog and I then lock eyes. The At this time with out thinking I flipped the keep down latch on my holster and kept running. "

So to this I simply ask: If you saw where this was going, instead of unlatching your holster, why not stop running, avert DIRECT eye contact, and begin a casual walk, or turn back towards your wife and wait for her to catch up? Again, please don't misunderstand me, I am just curious if as you said, you could see where this was heading, why not attempt to avoid it? Obviously I don't know the exact circumstances, and am only going by what you have posted.

 

These anti-gun/anti-self interest posts are disturbing. He has a right to defend himself and his property by any means neccessary. Period.

If he feels his life is in danger then he could/should put down a dog or a person. When did we stop looking out for our own well being in this country?

 

An agressive dog is like a bullet. Once they are loosed the damage is done. In my opinion the man with the dog "pulled the gun" first by letting the dog off leash. The OP showed remarkable restraint by yelling while keeping himself covered. From his story he felt in immediate danger and would have been justified in pulling the trigger to protect himself at least in Oregon. It is up to the gun owner to know and follow the laws of his state.

Good job!

 

Forgive me if I am wrong here, but back when I was a CCW carrier the state laws were that you could not ENTER a school. It says nothing about traveling PAST one, or within 1000 feet of one. Otherwise too many people would be breaking the law if they had a gun in their car when driving by a school, or if they lived next door to a school and had one in their gun safe.

 

Funny I was born in MD and never found it to be that way. A Pit Bull would be right at the top of the list of only dog I could shoot with no remorse.

 

good luck being justified for shooting a dog that was barking at you. if this was the case, there would be a lot less dogs in the world.

 

AMEN

I am NOT anti gun or anti-self interest! How you feel is not a good enough reason to draw down or shoot! The OP felt like he might get bit- but ultimately he did not! That being said the OP even admitted in the OP that his life was NOT at stake!!!

For God's sake carry if you are legally allowed to in your given state, but in hind-sight this situation did not necessitate the need for a drawn firearm. period.

 

The Gun-Free School Zones Act (GFSZA, codified at 18 U.S.C. § 922(q)) is a federal United States law that prohibits any individual from knowingly possessing a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a "school zone" as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(25)

Title 18 of the United States Code section 922(q) contains the Gun Free School Zones Act of 1995, which prohibits the possession of a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reason to believe, is a school zone. The statute defines a school zone as the grounds of a public, parochial or private elementary or secondary school, or within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a public, parochial or private elementary or secondary school. The ban on firearm possession does not apply: (a) if the possession is on on private property outside the school grounds; (b) if the firearm is properly licensed; (c) if the firearm is unloaded and in a locked container or on a locked firearms rack mounted on a vehicle; (d) if possession of the firearm is for use in a program approved by the school; (d) if possession of the firearm is in connection with a contract between the school and the possessor or his employer; (e) if the possession is by a law enforcement officer on official duty; or (f) if the firearm is unloaded and the person in possession is traveling through the school zone to gain access to public or private hunting lands.

 

Well there we go. If it is properly licensed (I would garner that someone with a CCW or open carry permit would be "licensed") then being in this so called "school zone" area in this park, The OP is within the law then.

 

That is an extremely irresponsible statement, and I find it funny coming from the guy that is criticizing what the OP did in the first place

....and its sad coming from a supposed police officer.

 

The 'license' is issued or defined by each state. In AZ, the ccw permit is the only issued "license" for carrying in a so called "school zone".

 

The details are vague to me too. I am remembering the best I can and playing it over and over in my head. This only happened yesterday night and it feels like a dream. The dog never did bite, But in my mind it did attack. It ran at me from what I could tell was full speed. Enough so that it did not bark at me while it was moving to me.

This is the account tho the best of my memory for about a span of what was 8 seconds or less.

I see dog and couple 25 meters away.
I here dog bark we lock eyes, I flip the latch on my holster
I move another 3 to 4 jogging steps about 12 feet
Dog bolts, dog closes the distance between me and the couple (15 meters) and hits the right heal of my shoe less than 2 seconds.
I spin and grab my weapon
I take defensive stance extend my weapon Dog is 1 foot away barking and nashing teeth..sort of growling.
"GET YOUR FUCKING DOG, GET YOUR FUCKING DOG, GET YOUR FU....
Guy is on dog, I re holster.
I immediately walk backwards to about 25 meters.

That's the best I can do on the encounter.

As for careering a weapon.. I would like to say it is the best form of deescalation as well. Would that guy not have jumped on his dog if he did not see the gun? I don't know.. I just know that in this case it ended the encounter swiftly.

I think it was a lack of judgment. So to put this in some context. I am not a little guy. Never have been. I was 4 miles into a 5 mile run. This is my exhaustion limit. I was in a rhythm of running and did not want to break the rhythm. I know this is a long jump to them.. why not pull your gun.. I just was not thinking about it. I saw them I saw the dog the dog saw me I was committed.

It is like when you are holding a wrench over the engine bay and you are holding it wrong. You are about to drop it and you say to your self.. I see where this is going. You go to adjust to catch what you are about to drop and it is too late. Your going to spend the next 15 minuets looking for the wrench.

I got lucky the wrench this time fell through the engine bay for me this time. I don't have to spend the time cleaning up my mess.

I hope that explanation will sort it out a bit. I am not say I was justified All of your solutions are viable and better than what I came up with. I ended up almost ending some thing/some ones life. Did I learn.. Yeah. Will I protect my self next time. Yeah. I am lucky I did not have to shoot

 

This is a chicken or the egg argument. It does not matter that the end result did not result in a dog attack. His own agressive actions may have turned that around. We do not know. He felt as if he was in immediate danger and that prompted his actions.

Your argument is that he had to BE damaged first and that is like requiring the other guy to shoot first before you shoot back. It just doesn't cut it.

The dog was of a size capable of damage. The dog was not under the control of the owner. The dog was making threatening movements.

Again it could have been his resolved actions and yelling that prevented acutal damage from occuring. Without his agressively turning and facing this THREAT and making that subconscious assessment that lethal force was not required the outcome may have been different.

Again I would state the actions were justified in my state. Your mileage may vary.

 

it was being sarcastic, but see how you cant pick up tone in text....

 

dog owners who do not follow leash laws suck balls

I would not have held a firearm in the presence of other people though,
if I carry, I also carry a knife, and I would have had the knife out, and let
the dog bleed out while clamped onto me. too risky to unholster a
firearm when humans around if the direct threat is not human...

I've been attacked by dogs and for sure they are easy to stab pretty much
however they are chewing on you [except if they have the stabbing hand]

 

Pro-gun remarks are also very disturbing on TacomaWorld, which, I would say, is a very red/Republican/conservative website.

"When did we stop looking out for our own well-being in this country?" Never. This is an awesome country that takes little responsibility for its actions, and I'm talking about all administrations. It's much more selfish to say your welfare is worth more than someone else's. While I'm personally pro-gun I'm also very pro-restrictions. I may or may not feel protection is necessary on hikes in Los Angeles due to the animals in our woods, as well as the waste-oids who want to make a lethal mark in time on unsuspecting hikers on a lonely trail. With or without any law, I believe in human rights which allow effective self-defense against the escalation of violence.

OP, you had a right to defend yourself, but the dog DIDN'T bite you for some reason despite the gun - point being the dog may only know it or its owners are in danger, but not because that danger had a gun in his hand. You and your wife are the only ones who know the circumstances, so any other banter is internet hubris. Hopefully, a tiny can of mace will be outfitted on your belt alongside the gun next time. Happy to hear how experienced you are, and how much self-control you have. Glad everyone is safe.

 

I digress in that instance....

I dont know if you have a reading comprehension problem or not, but the OP never shot the dog. And he never said the dog was just barking at him, he said it was running after/toward him. Totally different situations.




I dont necessarily agree with what the OP did, but I think he conducted himself responsibly and kept a level head. I am an avid gun enthusiast, but never carry. I have been approached many times by a very angry or threatening looking dog, and did nothing but try and get out of its way or just act toward it like a dog I know (always worked).