Engine Pinging & Disappointed with Toyota

the taco's ecu may not be as advanced, but it, as most vehicles, WILL take advantage of 91 octane and make more power out of it, by allowing more advanced timing.

but, seeing as im in the right circle of people here, how does that work? I don't understand how pre-detonation can be cured by retarding timing. if its blowing up before ignition anyway, how is a timing adjustment relevant? I know it does work, as I had to retard my old truck's timing to run 87 without what I thought to be excessive pinging.

 

It works because you are retarding the timing to a point before the predetination event takes place.

In other words the spark plug needs to initiate the spark before the detonation occurs. Remember the piston is coming up and creating compression. At point X it predetonates(explosion with no spark from plug), so you want to retard the timing to a point X-1(for example) to have the spark plug initiate combustion.

The cylinder head is designed to kernel the flame from the spark plug area and creates more power there. Generally only a cylinder or two are prone to detonation way before the others due to having better manifold or head flow, creating more dynamic compression, to that cylinder or two.

 

When the same engine was in the fj Toyota said it required higher octane. At the same time they said not needed in Tacoma.

I say conspiracy. Lol

In reality I just think Toyota knew some Tacoma owners would go elsewhere in the market and fj's well they have no competition and have a totally different sector they are trying to sell to.

That's my take.

 

As long as it is just light, intermittent pinging under load, then there is no problem. The computer detects the pinging and dials the timing back slightly to compensate. If it's prolonged, heavy pinging, then you have a problem.

I don't know about the 2013s, but mine has always pinged on 87 at low rpm. 1,000 to 1,500 is really low.....I kinda wonder if yours may be shifting up prematurely. You might ask the dealer about that. My dad's 2013 seems to drop down to about 1,700 rpm, but any lower than that and it will shift down a gear. My 06 also will ping when getting on the freeway at or near full throttle. It's very brief, then the computer adjusts and it goes away. If I run 89 0r 91 octane, it does not ping. The MPG also goes up on midgrade or above, in my experience. I am saving enough fuel running midgrade to compensate for the higher price of midgrade fuel.

 

I run regular through mine and I have for the 4000+ miles I have driven it without issue

 

I've run 87 octane from the beginning and have at times driven it below 1500 RPM without ever hearing a single ping. After 8 1/2 years and 134k miles, it has never pinged once (even when towing trailers full of firewood). Something tells me either there's slight differences due to tolerances in the timing or maybe the system isn't "learning" from the knock sensor. After all, it's supposed to take a while to adjust when you switch down in octane levels which means it must be learning and storing it in memory.

 

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Uh, no shit! 1,000 rpm in fifth gear under load. Uh, yeah. Spin that motor up. This is not a Toyota problem. And you should be running at least mid-grade fuel, and try not to run cheap fuel like Pilot or Maverick.

dp

 

On my Slushbox, I drive in 4th and only put the truck into 5th once I'm going about 55mph. Fifth is an over-drive gear intended for the freeway, not for trundling around town.

You'll find that when you run in fourth at slower speeds the transmission will shift a lot less and you'll probably get slightly better mileage because the motor isn't constantly lugging, which is harder on the motor than over-revving it.

dp

 

This is exactly what I was thinking as I read this thread. There is a BIG difference between pinging and knocking. Occasional pinging under load is normal, consistent pinging is not OK, and knocking is just plain bad. Also I agree the OP is lugging his engine - 1500rpm will maintain speed on level ground, but don't expect any decent acceleration. And yes cheap fuel could easily contribute to this problem - try some top tier gasoline and adjust your driving habits, and the problem will either diminish or go away entirely.

 

Incorrect information was given to you.Ethanol REDUCES the chance of pre-ignition pinging because it INCREASES octane rating, not decreases it. The problem stems from the baseline fuel used BEFORE adding the ethanol.

Since it was asked, this is how the automatic timing works:

After the engine has started the ECU will begin to advance the timing gradually until the knock sensor begins to pick up the beginning signs of pre-ignition (The knock sensor is very sensitive, and it can detect pre-ignition before we can ever hear it) As soon as the knock sensor detects this beginning it reduces the spark advance until no "pinging" is heard. This becomes the baseline for this ignition cycle. (let's assume it is 25* advanced)

Now as you drive your vehicle timing needs continual adjustment based on engine power demand, and the feedback from the knock sensor. The ECU uses this baseline, and predetermined algorythms that are already stored in the ECU to more rapidly respond to driving habits. For instance let's say that on WOT (Wide Open Throttle) the engine is capable of +15 degrees more timing advance from baseline. You are cruising along and need to pass a car that is going too slow (I mean come on, the speed limit is 65 and they are only doing 70!) So you floor it to pass. The computer instantly cranks the baseline timing of 25* up to 40* (Base 25+15 predetermined increase for WOT) and you get the power that you need.

But wait, you are supposed to be running 91 octane in this Supercharged Tacoma, but you put in 87 octane to save money, and as you accelerate the knock sensors pick up pinging at only 30* advance. In order to protect the engine the ECU will only allow advancing the engine to 30*, and stores this new increase for WOT at only 5*. Also the computer knows that in this engine 87 octane will ping at 30* WOT, so now the computer knows you are only running 87 octane. It now reduces the timing advance for ALL events to the programmed acceptance of 87 octane.

Do you get the general idea of how it works? Hopefully this didn't confuse anyone.

 

So, just to avoid confusion. Octane is just "resistance to burn" - not more power. Ethanol increases Octane, because it is harder to burn.

However, Premium fuel has lots of other things it, besides just "Octane" that may make it a better choice given your circumstances.

In my personal situation, when I was driving 100 miles a day, one month I ran only Mid-Grade, the next month I ran only Premium. In my situation, I found that with premium fuel, my gas mileage was better; better enough that it was actually _Cheaper Per Mile_ to drive with Premium than it was to drive with mid grade.

Of course, YMMV.

dp

 

Right. octane rating is basically a fuel's resistance to igniting on it's own, before the spark plug can.

One of the reasons some vehicles can benefit from using higher octane fuel is that the newer computers can compensate for this by increasing timing advance, thus increasing power. More power from fuel means less fuel consumption.

 

Same here. In summer I run premium and clock 21 mpg all around. That's in Auto 4x4 DCLB. With premium truck can maintain 5th gear much longer. Thus running at maximum efficiently. If you know how system works its easy to get good mileage out of those trucks.

 

This is my biggest complaint about my new truck which only has 2200 miles on the clock. No matter the gas brand or octane it PINGS. There are a couple of interior rattles that need to be addressed so I will take it into the dealer and see what they say.

The engine sounds as if it doesn't have any knock sensors at all.

 

You sure it's not the exhaust valves clacking?

You're all high if you think these things are pinging to the point of doing damage. They would very easily update the tunes at the dealer and pull timing on these already low compression engines.

 

I don’t have thing pinging in my ’07. i some times run 87, but also run mid grade and also run 93 some.

dads ’00 tundra does have this, ticking/pinging or what ever you want to call it.

edit: my taco is pretty quiet! I have started the truck, sat there for a few min texting(I don’t text and drive) and i tried starting the truck agin and realized it was already running.

 

No, it's not the tick. I will note at what Rpm's and speed it does it. It is detonation for sure. Believe me, I know what i'm talking about here. I have been a Lexus Master Tech for 13 years.

 

I also have a '07 & it does not ping.
I have a 6 speed stick, & have loaded it with firewood in the bed towing a trailer without a ping.
I run 87 regular with ethanol only, use synthetic in everything.
I dont know if im just lucky, or with a stick, i am able to keep the truck in the low end of the powerband. This keeps the truck from pinging, & attempts to squeze all the mpg i can.

 

Mine does not ping. However, I do not "lug" the engine. If I were in 5th gear at 40-45 MPH I would certainly be lugging it...which can cause some pinging for sure. 5th gear in our trucks is very tall and is only meant as a highway-speed overdrive.

 

i have had several supercharged and nitrous fed vehicles, so i know all too well the dangers of detonation and pinging.

when i switched spark plugs from the stock copper plugs to iridiums, the pinging went away for good.

i run 87 octane in every tank and don't spend too much time searching for "top tier" gas stations.