Any hardwood flooring experts

We have quite a bit of 3/4 inch solid hardwood installed in my newly built home. Lots of problems with it making cracking noises and squeak on every step taken. The builder and flooring company have agree to replace all of it.

Question is builder wants to put luan underlayment down and then new floor on top. Is this a good idea or not? What are some problems that might exist. I already have concerns with height of base mouldings and appliances.

 

Most of the time squeaky noises come from something not being fastened correctly. Either your subfloor wasn't installed correctly and moving up and down on the joists (doubt this if it is a new house) or the flooring wasn't installed correctly. Make sure they used an adequate amount of staples and if the wood is 4" or wider then they should be using some sort of adhesive in addition to the staples. I use 2" staples spaced 8 or so inches apart.

 

It sounds like the home constructor might have cut a few corners when he did his sub floor if the flooring guy wants to put another layer down to help support his wood floor. There should have been some construction paper between the hardwood floor and the subfloor to begin with, that would have helped the creaks and groans. Hardwood creaks because things aren't tight. Either the subfloor has too much give to it or the floor installer didn't keep his joints tight. I'm guessing the floor installer believes that the floor has too much give and that's why he wants to use luan as a 'bridging' layer. Either that or it creates a 'floating floor' which means the hardwood would be attached to the luan and not fastened to the subfloor.

 

Luan over the existing strip flooring then new flooring on top of that ?

 

just the fact that the builder suggests underlayment for 3/4" solid wood flooring in a new build tells me he is clueless to start.

I'd need more info on the flooring product...but I've laid acres of the stuff in hundreds of homes...never had any major problems.

if the floor deck framing and sheathing is done properly (glued & screwed or ring shank nailed)...all needed is 30# felt paper under the 3/4" t&g, as a moisture barrier and it eliminates any chance of squeaking caused from wood to wood contact.

proper direction of the flooring (perpendicular to the floor joists) and proper nails (or staples) is also key to a quality install.

was the flooring prefinished? or field finished? was it installed over felt? what fasteners were used? hand nailed or pneumatic? and...very important - was the flooring acclimated to the home prior to install. was there HVAC in the home during the acclimation process?

 

We moved into the house in July of last year. Floor started acting up before August even rolled around. We went through the whole process with the builder for months about issues with the floor. Blue tape all over for months. We had gaps in between boards, cracks, uneven spots, deflection, and tons of creaking/squeaking. It sounded, and still does, like a 100 year old floor. We do have unfinished basement so we even had humidifier installed to help with that.

To this point we've had mulitple people from flooring company, CTI, come look at it. Flooring installers to managers. Builder warranty people and most recently an outside company who came and actually cut pieces out for samples. They still can't figure it out.

The floor is Bruce 3/4" solid hardwood 2" strips. It was all prefinished. Brown paper under hardwood was used. I believe they used a staple instead of nail and I'm sure it was pnuematic nailed. We have asked the flooring company for moisture readings of the subfloor and actually hardwood at time of install but they refuse to give it to us.

At this point they have agree to replace the entire wood floor. I guess the flooring company is suggestion to use the luan.

 

brown "builders paper" is worthless under wood flooring. you need felt paper...preferably 30# (pound). it's what is commonly called "tar paper". and you want the thicker 30#, not the thinner 15#.

it also sounds like the wood was not acclimated to the home before install. having the HVAC system in place and running...or temp. A/C units IS A MUST! if the wood is installed full of moisture...then you finish the home and crank up the HVAC...it will shrink and create the problems you are experiencing.

Luan underlayment will do NOTHING. what is 100X more important is that the subfloor is properly nailed (and glued) to the floor joists.

Nothing wrong with pneumatic flooring staples. I actually prefer them. but the flooring MUST run perpendicular to the floor joists.

Also...if the basement is not insulated/conditioned...you should insulate the floor joists below the flooring/living space above.

 

Now the builder is saying they think it was the staples on the subfloor did not stay bonded to the floor. Most likely due to humidity and/or moisture.

Now wants to use 1/4" or 3/8" plywood over top subfloor.

 

sub floor should NEVER be stapled. it should ALWAYS be glued and nailed with ring shank nails. Screws are also good but not really any better than ring shank nails. Screws do work well as a fix for an improperly nailed sub floor.

adding another layer of 1/4"or 3/8" underlayment is a waste of time and money and effort.

he needs to properly nail off (or screw off) the subfloor.

what is the subfloor? 3/4" t&g plywood?

if there is access under...even running a glue bead along side the floor joists...along the plywood subfloor, along with nail-off (and/or screws) would be helpful.

and after the subfloor is stabilized (properly nailed off)...THE next most important thing is to have the new flooring acclimated to the conditioned home for a few weeks before installation.

 

Agree with Larry on fastening the subfloor to the joists correctly is the first step

I would also note that any nails or staples that are skimmers ( through the plywood but missing and just touching the joists ) should be removed as they are a squeak source as well

 

Sounds like these guys have every possibility covered. My guess is that the flooring wasn't acclimated.

 

I also agree w/ OZ on the skimmers (although we call them "holiday nails"...because they are there but are not doing a thing)

and...yes, the acclimation process can not be overstated.

 

I have installed a number of hardwood floors also, the comments from 12thman, Pugga, OZ-T, Evan, and Larry are correct. The subfloor was probably not fastened correctly ( staples should not be used for subfloor). Do not allow them to install luan, this will only raise that floor above adjacent floors causing a possible tripper.

Once they remove the bad hardwood have them SCREW THE SUBFLOOR to the joists, then lay 30lb felt paper. Make sure the newly purchased hardwood sits in your climate controlled house for at least 48 hours before install.

 

I misspoke before. The sub-floor was properly glued and screwed. What I meant was the staples used on the hardwood floor didn't bond well enough to the sub-floor. That's what the builder is saying. Our sub-floor is 3/4" t & g.

We're still going back and forth with builder trying to ask and look at all options. Of course I have demanded 30 lb felt be used and that all new hardwood be acclimated inside our house before installation.

 

there should be no issue going forward...

GL

 

Met with production manager today. We've decided to add 3/8" plywood to floor and install new hardwood over that. I asked about the 30 lb felt paper and he said flooring company wanted to use something called Hydroblok from Chemstretch. www.chemstretch.com


Not sure if this is what's underfloor now but he wanted us to check it out. We can probably still request the felt paper. Anyone ever heard of or used this Hydroblok before?

 

X2

We've lived in our house for 16 years (35 year old house). The damn floors squeaked like crazy!!! We just had the entire house carpeted. Prepping for the carpet, we yanked all the carpet/pad.... My husband removed ALL the nails (non-shanked nails) from the subfloor and replaced with screws.

 

why?

 

I am not sure why the builder wants to add 3/8" plywood on top or your existing subfloor, is your existing subfloor plywood or OSB ? Also, is subfloor 3/4" thick or less ?

It sounds like the subfloor is sub par.

 

If the joist system is overspan , adding another layer of plywood may be an attempt to reduce deflection and movement in the floor

Perhaps movement in the floor worked the flooring loose