Creationism vs. Evolution

I am being told to "calm down". I'm trying to be boring.

 

Just my general thoughts about evolution/creationism... Basically humans like to measure things via time and mathematical equation. Yet with all of our abilities, we still have no clue what a million years is like, let alone the billions of years the planet has been around. Thus to some people its totally unfeasible that an animal could mutate slowly over the course into a totally different animal. Yet all you have to do is go to a really old American city and see for yourself the effects of evolution: All of the doorways in South Boston where I used to live were so short that I'd almost hit my head on the tops. I'm only 5 ft 7". The avg male in the 1770's was 5 ft 4". That's evolution for ya' baby.

 

I thought that this post was about learning about each other's beliefs and having a civil discussion--not about changing anyone's mind--that is pointless since these are our beliefs. Knock off the name-calling, and we can continue peacefully as has been done in the past. Go in with the understanding that there are many points about which we will simply have to agree to disagree, and there won't be any fights.

 

Creationism all the way!!!!!!!!!! For all those who think the bible is some imaginary book of tall tales and fables sorry to let you down but it is a book that is God breathed and know word entered that book without His consent. We are not to add to it or take anything away from it. Many people want to compromise and pick and choose what they want to believe but you can't like the fact that God can give you a miracle yet choose not to believe in creation. The book is black and white there are no shades of gray. It is truth and it is life. Jesus all the way baby our Lord and Savior is coming WOO HOO!

 

Is someone calling someone names? I haven't noticed it on this tread at all???? It's not me!! I'm still in my corner Shakin the Bush Boss! Shakin the Bush!!

 

Actually, no, that's not evolution. Humans are not mutating into "totally different animals" just because they have the ability to adapt to their environment.

At best what you point out is simply an example of human adaption. We find many such examples of adaption throughout the biological record, but not one of true species to species evolution. That's one reason Darwin himself expressed concern that his "theory" of evolution did not meet the requirements necessary to be called the science of evolution.

Some do call themselves "evolutionary scientists," however the truly honest and objective amongst them will candidly admit that their "science" is far more philosophical than rigidly scientific.

 

Hey Charli.. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but the title of the thread is "Creationism vs. Evolution." That indicates at the very least a polite discussion of these points of view, with each person stating the facts and reasons behind what they believe.

I've looked the thread over and have not seen any of the "name-calling" you're concerned about. However if there has been a certain level of ill will that I've missed, and your concern in that regard is justified, then I would of course agree.

 

First of all, the bible has been re-written numerous times. So much for adding or taking away from it because that happened already. Secondly, the example of humans growing taller in a very short time period is a perfect example of evolution. We're talking only 200 years or so. Now imagine that time period is expanded to several million. You would likely have a totally different creature adapted to a changed environment. I was using this example to show that animals can change dramatically in a very short amount of time. 200 years is a tiny immeasurable blip on the time scale.

Either way, this topic is kind of ridiculous and frankly I find it embarrassing that there's still so many people in a country like the US who still think that science is basically a bunch of hooey, and dinosaurs never existed.

 

So, if like, a 6'2" Norwegian Maiden marries a 5'7" Bob Wilson and has a 6' tall girl - let's name her Fjord Wilson - that's evolution?

 

You're missing the point. The change in the avg height of the avg American male was a overall change in the population, not just a few here and a few there from marriage and so forth. Evolution is a very slow proccess.

Anyway, here's the way I look at it. I think a lot of people who are uber-religious think that if they entertain the idea of science and evolution that they're instantly going to go to hell thus they think they must shut their minds to that kind of thought. But in my opinion, its absolutely fine to be objective. Besides- didn't God give you that mind to think with? If you really and truly believe that humans descended from God's own image, then people who believe in evolution are actually descendant from God's image... right along with all those who steadfastly refuse to learn about science.

Secondly, some of the earliest scientists in the world were Franciscan Monks, who worked in the field. During their time they were perhaps the most out-there scientists making theories much the same way that people like Darwin did. Ironic huh?

Humans are curious creatures.

 

Bobby, I can give you hundreds more quotes from famous scientists like Pasteur below. Your statements above conclude that Science and Religion are mutually exclusive, and that is simply factually incorrect:

Louis Pasteur [1822-1895] Father of Microbiology, developed "pasteurization"
"The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator." "Science brings men nearer to God."

I totally agree with your last sentence. Thus, I encourage you to go to church for an hour each Sunday and put your curiosity to work. Warning: IT'S NOT EASY.

 

"All religions, arts and sciences are branches of the same tree. All these aspirations are directed toward ennobling man's life, lifting it from the sphere of mere physical existence and leading the individual towards freedom." - Albert Einstein

 

Actually I think we're agreeing in many ways. My assertion was that religion and science are in some ways one of a kind. Science is the pursuit of answers... and so to is religion. Its just that there are varying degrees of accepting science by various religious groups and even different protestant churches. I witnessed this firsthand as a kid. My Grandmother was Southern Baptist. The preacher used to get up in front and scream through the whole sermon. If the bible says that fire breathing snakes flew through the air... then by god they DID and nobody should question that. I went to her church a lot.

Then on the other hand my parent's church was Presbyterian and a lot of the sermons were about religious experiences in modern society and interpretation of the bible with an understanding that yes- 900 years might not actually BE 900 years. In other words, there was some flexibility. I'm not taking sides here, but I do feel that you can be a religious person AND also believe in evolution, scientific study and research and still be a good Christian. My only side here that I'm taking up is that I don't exactly approve of people who just totally outright refuse to even learn about science and be a bit more open minded or flexible in regards to using their own brains to make decisions based on what they actually think versus point-blank reading a text that was altered at many times for the benefit of whomever king was in power.

 

1. God will never be proven, hence we have faith (or not)

2. All things that people claim God created must be explained by science

either

3a. God is the fabrication of man to explain that which he does not understand.
or
3b. God works within methods explainable to man so that faith IS required.

me im on the side of God does exist but works within the laws/processes of the universe. so both i guess.

either way religion has killed more people than just about anything else. believe what you want but if you follow blindly your an idiot.

you cant dismiss something just because it doesn't fit into your neat little box.

 

There will always be extremists, left and right, up and down, good and bad, religious and agnostic, etc. etc. etc. I would call this a scientific "constant".

 

Good points...I agree. I believe Jesus asks his followers to study his word, teachings and life and to understand it with my heart AND mind. But there are times when he does ask that you trust him and put your faith in him. I LOVE science!!! I come from a family of Chemical Engineers and Doctors.

 

every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that He is Lord

 

Even with "versus" they are still expressions of belief that some will have to agree to disagree on rather than trying to change someone else's mind. Polite discussion is what mainly has happened with some periods of less peaceful argument--my post originally came out of the "brick walls" (on the page before this one) comment since I didn't think that we were out to "change minds", just discuss the finer points of the topic. Pster shouldn't have to be hiding in a corner.

 

Thanks Charli, it is a self imposed quiet time in the corner for being overly emotional. So I'm told.

 

No problem--it's an inherently emotional topic.