Creationism vs. Evolution

Aaron Hernandez killed someone too, so by your reasoning humans do not have morals

 

What you asked for was a clear explanation of the overall process by which evolution occurs. That's exactly what Dr. Futuyma's answers to the questions that were put to him about natural selection and it's place in evolution provides. Now you insist that the apple maggot fly example of "genetic change propagated by natural selection" that he pointed out in illustrating one of the points he was making is not sufficient in and of itself to make the case for evolution. I agree.

To better address the issue and add to the weight of evidence for "genetic change propagated by natural selection", let's broaden our scope of inquiry.

Nobel Prize winning scientist Linus Pauling aptly described science as the search for truth. Science does this by continuously comparing its theories objectively with evidence in the natural world. When theories no longer conform to the evidence, they are modified or rejected in favor of new theories that do conform. In other words, science constantly tries to prove its assumptions to be false and rejects implausible explanations. In this way, scientific knowledge and understanding grow over time.

Religious explanations for the order of things are not science. They are based primarily on faith and do not subject themselves to be objectively falsified. Because of this fundamental difference in the approach to understanding our natural world, the U.S. Supreme Court in effect decided in 1987 that Biblically based "creation science" is not science at all, and cannot be taught as such in public schools as an alternative or in addition to the mainstream evolutionary theory of the biological sciences. However, religious creation stories and the idea of "intelligent design" can be taught in philosophy, religion, or history courses. Religion and Science provide different approaches to knowledge. It is important to understand both.

What Is Evolution?

Biological evolution is genetic change in a population from one generation to another. The speed and direction of change is variable with different species lines and at different times. Continuous evolution over many generations can result in the development of new varieties and species. Likewise, failure to evolve in response to environmental changes can, and often does, lead to extinction.

When scientists speak of evolution as a theory they do not mean that it is a mere speculation. It is a theory in the same sense as the propositions that the earth is round rather than flat or that our bodies are made of atoms are theories. Most people consider such fundamental theories to be sufficiently tested by empirical evidence to conclude that they are indeed fact based.

As a result of the massive amount of evidence for biological evolution accumulated over the last two centuries, we can in like terms safely conclude that evolution has occurred and continues to occur. All life forms, including humans, evolved from earlier species, and all still living species of organisms continue to evolve today. They are not unchanging end-products.

For those who have difficulty in accepting evolution because of what they perceive as contradictions with their religious beliefs, it may be useful to distinguish the ultimate origin of life from its later evolution.

Many, if not most, biological scientists accept that primordial life on earth began as a result of chance natural occurrences 3.5-4 billion years ago. However, it is not necessary to believe in that view in order to accept that living creatures evolved by natural means after the origin of the first life.

Charles Darwin modified his religious beliefs, as did many others, as a result of the discovery of convincing proof of evolution. Darwin's religious faith was severely challenged by the death of his 10 year old daughter Annie in 1851. He came to believe that his God created the order of the universe including the rules of nature that result in biological evolution. His famous book, On the Origin of Species, was by no means a denial of his God's existence. What he rejected, and what many Christians today continue to reject, is a literal interpretation of the Scriptures that insists the six "days" [yom] of creation outlined in the Bible were literal 24 hour periods of time. Darwin's religious beliefs arguably were similar to those who advocate "theistic evolution" today.

So, how do we know evolution has occurred? ...Evidence for evolution comes primarily from four sources:

1. the fossil record of change in earlier species

2. the chemical and anatomical similarities of related life forms

3. the geographic distribution of related species

4. the recorded genetic changes in living organisms over many generations

Starting with the fossil record:


Geological strata containing an evolutionary sequence of fossils

Remains of animals and plants found in sedimentary provide an indisputable record of past changes through vast periods of time. This evidence attests to the fact that there has been a tremendous variety of living things. Some extinct species had traits that were transitional between major groups of organisms. Their existence confirms that species are not fixed but can through the process of natural selection evolve into other species over time.

The evidence now shows that apparent gaps in the fossil record have been due to incomplete data collection. The more we learn about the evolution of specific species lines, the more these so-called gaps or "missing links in the chain of evolution" are filled with transitional fossil specimens.

One of the first of these gaps to be filled was between small bipedal dinosaurs and birds. Just two years after Darwin published On the Origin of Species, a 150-145 million year old fossil of Archaeopteryx was found in southern Germany. It had jaws with teeth and a long bony tail like dinosaurs, broad wings and feathers like birds, and skeletal features of both. This discovery provided proof that birds had reptilian ancestors.


Archaeopteryx fossil


Archaeopteryx recreation


Archaeopteryx tail feathers

Since the discovery of Archaeopteryx, there have been many other crucial evolutionary gaps filled in the fossil record. Perhaps, the most important one, from our human perspective, was that between apes and our own species.

Since the 1920's, there have been hundreds of well-dated intermediate fossils found in Africa that belonged to transitional species leading from apes to humans over the last 6-7 million years. We'll look at this evidence a bit later as our discussion progresses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HyJAV-Jf9do
Transitional Tetrapod Fossil--another example of filling what had been an evolutionary gap.

The fossil record also provides abundant evidence that the complex animals and plants of today were preceded by earlier less complex ancestors. In addition, it shows that multicelled organisms evolved only after the original single-celled ones. This fits the predictions of evolutionary theory perfectly.

Much more evidence to examine, but enough for the moment.

One thing I'm not sure about is your understanding of so called "young earth" creationism. Do you believe the earth was "created" in six 24 hour periods of time or not?

 

The difference is humans inherently know what's right and wrong. It's built in. From the very first sin, we knew we did wrong.

 

many do not.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0gbDa1-cTE&feature=player_detailpage

 

That is exactly my point. Pure speculation, but that is what I believe. I accept that is just my point of view and I don't look down on anyone that disagrees. You on the other hand seem to think you know the truth and think you have the right to say those who don't agree will be punished. I never said you are going anywhere or anything would happen to you because of your point of view

 

Mr. Mehover, people like us believe there truly is risk involved for you. I PROMISE you that for me, when I'm trying convince someone that there is far more available to them than what they currently have, and far more for eternity to come. If you had a secret that could change someone's life for the better, wouldn't you want to share that?
Like I said, from ME, it's honestly out of a love for my fellow man that these discussions take place. Some folks just want to argue (Christians included) and be 'right', I just want to see you loved by the God who cares for me enough to die.

Whether you believe it or not is up to you and ill leave it at that.

 

But you won't leave it at that

 

Pure speculation, no proof = no evidence

 

http://www.livescience.com/24802-animals-have-morals-book.html

 

Are you serious? Do YOU really want to bring up the whole burden of proof issue? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. All you have done since you've entered the arena is quote. You have yet to present any form of logical argument attempting to prove anything. The burden of proof is on those making the claim. You can't say "now I've told you and it's on you." A lot of people have told me a lot of things, most of which directly contradict. Do you buy the car from the guy who says "this is the best car ever" or do you buy from the one who proves?

Classic example here which I'm sure you will ignore: PROVE to me that there isn't a revolving teapot in the sky.

 

How about the plagues in exodus? Those are fairly well documented by the Egyptians iirc, that's proof of punishment haha. I've long believed that god has always done things in a way that can be explained scientifically, but still holds His miraculous power. Here's a cool example of that:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...l-plagues-really-happened-say-scientists.html

 

Interesting article. For arguments sake you COULD argue that God used that gorilla to spare that child. I know that's kind of a trump card but it doesn't make it less true. To me at least . But that is interesting, I shall have to ponder some of that.

 

Again nobody will answer and I am not arguing, I want to hear an honest answer. There used to be a time the interpretation of the lord said the earth was flat and the sun revolved around us. They hammered that as truth and told those who disagreed they would be punished for eternity. Considering your beliefs, who in that case do you think was actually punished for eternity? The man that told the real truth, or the ones that spread their version of the "truth" and threatened punishment under the lord?

Knowing it has happened before, how are you so sure the current interpretation is really the truth?

 

Well, we are in a debate, so it's not like ill just leave, but there's no need to pester you about it.

 

No, like an elephant visiting the remains of a loved one for years. When you learn something from your environment its adapting. Long term throughout generations is evolution

 

Exactly? You just demonstrated how deities change over time...

I guess you still cannot grasp the larger concept. You said he cannot decide unless he's read it. I have pointed out that you probably haven't read every religion's text therefore, using your logic, you cannot make a determination either. Not that I believe that, you're the one who said it.

 

oh ok, so the world was created in 6000 years. Got it.

 

See it people? Right here ^^^

and *you're

And stop fucking praying for me dude. Get off my existence and keep your god to yourself.

You won't get a thanks from me for something only you think I need. But apparently you think you deserve one. You are a special case.