Is it bad to shift without the clutch sometimes?

Meh, I jump in on topics I feel I have something to contribute to. I know I used to be all shy and quiet. Hahaha.

 

Yall are awesome I caught my brother doing it in his dakota yesterday and I informed him why it is bad and should not do it. Though he just went meh.. Thanks bamatoy for the info. Though I hate you and the midget football master that runs your state!

 

How does one perfect such manfulness of performance piloting, if not by grinding a gear every now and then.....

 

I drive an 18 wheeler 3000+ miles a week. I only use the clutch when starting off from a dead stop or when in reverse. In big trucks, we double-clutch, taking into consideration engine speed, ground speed and other variables that become second nature to us. Other than potentially harming your transmission, there is NOTHING to gain by shifting your Tacoma without using the clutch. By the way, I STILL grind a gear on occasion!

 

Eaton-Fuller recommends using the clutch when in low range. I tell people driving my trucks to NEVER use enough pressure to crush an empty coke can (length wise) to get out of gear. If you are pushing harder than that to get out of gear with one of my 13/18 speeds, then you are bending things in the transmission.

Nobody builds an automotive transmission to shift without relieving the pressure from the forks while getting out of gear.

People seem to be focused on getting back into gear but I worry more about the fact that 13/18 speeds tend to pop out of gear on their own when driven by people who force them out. The right foot is much more important then the right hand when shifting.

 

So you are saying when it is a pain for me to pop it from second to neutral I should clutch it then as well? I do sometimes

 

Yes.

 

The blocker rings (syncros) do not take the stress the hubs do when you yank them out of gear with strain on them they ware the teeth on the gear and the gloves in the syncro hub that is the grind you hear when you miss shift with out the clutch it's not the blocker rings grinding.

 

All this good info is anti-educational and should be tossed it out the window. All these comparisons to race trannys and big-rig trannys is confusing and useless. Drive it like you stole it so the transmission shop can give you an in depth view of the inside of YOUR transmission so you can see which components wear/break. By the time that happens you'll likely have enough metal particles floating around to wipe out the bearings so you'll get to see how they're replaced as well. You WILL have saved a ton of wear on the clutch master and slave cylinders so they should last forever and you can laugh at every post asking how you bleed them suckers!

Or be an average woosie and use the clutch, it is ok.

 

I used to drive a dump truck and shifted without the clutch all the time. Seems everyone wants to say its bad and will wear out the transmission, which it will, if you do it wrong.

So, if you must prove your driving cajones by shifting without the clutch, here's how to do it.

1. Match the engine speed exactly to the road speed. You must neither be accelerating nor decelerating.
2. Slide the shifter to neutral. It should slide out of gear as easy as butter. If there is even the least bit of resistance your engine is going too fast or slow, adjust accordingly.
3. Match the engine speed exactly to the road speed in the new gear. If your going from 1st to 2nd the engine needs to slow down. Going from 2nd to 1st the engine needs to speed up.
4. Slide the shifter into the new gear. It should slide in as easy as butter. If you're driving a non-syncro transmission you will know instantly if you've done it wrong by the grinding. On a synco transmission you'll feel resistance. Resistance is a bad thing, adjust the engine speed.

That's how you do it. Done correctly no damage is done. But IMHO there is no good reason to do it.

 

and the final answer will be when the gear box fluid is drained and inspected, If it looks like Goldschlager then wear is occurring.

cheers

 

I only clutch from a dead stop or feathering it in reverse...no need to use it in a semi as long you're good enough and do it well...takes a little getting use to but once you know your truck it becomes 2nd nature...good tip on the pressure coke can thing...if anyone has to force it that much somethin is getting hurt

 

i was about to start a thread asking this.

i have owned 2 tacomas now, both in which i dry shift frequently, my old 96 taco would dry shift every gear no problem, no resistance, no grinding. my dad also had a 98 and shifted great like this

now my new 2001 taco... shifts from 1/2 fine 2/3 fine and from 4/5 fine... but it will NOT shift from 3/4 no matter how much i try and speed match or any kind of adjustment thus meaning i dry shift every other gear BUT 3/4

my question is if one gear isnt performing properly will this increase the chance of damaging anything in the long run on the other gears?

BTW i also skip gears when using the clutch... i mostly keep a pattern of 1/3/5 when skipping to save gas (which to me it seems to work on MPG)

also wouldnt dry shifting help your clutch out in the long term of things? i would imagine not using it would make it last longer?

 

I find it harder to synchronize with electronic throttles, they don't have the same direct response as a cable, tho some cars are better than others and I find the taco to be close to cable feeling. My Volvo (electronic) sucked and if I tried to dry shift it I'm sure I'da found out the cost of a new trans., everything else I've owned or driven was no problem.
Weird that only the 3/4 shift won't go, but it means nothing towards the other shifts. The clutch disc should see no wear in normal shifting use as long as you're not slipping it between gears. Since you're able to synchronize so well as to dry shift I'd assume you're not slipping the clutch much if at all when you use it. The other parts will experience wear from releasing/engaging. Generally the disc is the first component to wear out and then all the integral parts would get replaced as part of the clutch job. Driven sanely and properly a good clutch lasts so damn long anyway I'd recommend not even thinking about it. Skipping is no problem as long as you're not trying to shift quickly and allowing things to synch. If you want to safely help synch it for a skip shift; I go to neutral with the clutch still engaged then disengage to enter the next gear. Doing this will slow the disc down to initiate synchronization but with the clutch disengaged for the next gear gives the safety that you don't have to be exactly synched for it to engage the next gear without damage.

 

question...

recently ive gotten into the habbit (if not in a hurry) of starting out in 2nd gear, getting to 3k rpm then shifting into 5th

the truck feels just fine while doing this, but if i shift into 4th the truck sputters allot more than 5th

i figure 5th just might be geared to go lower. i guess my real question is does anyone see anything wrong with starting out in 2 then to 5 at 3krpm(about 30MPH)

 

Interesting, can someone else verify this?
I've recently started skipping gears in my 1st Gen

When I hit around 35mph (given that's the speed limit) in 3rd, I'll shift right to 5th and hit the cruise control
And, If I'm cruising at around 1.25k rpms in 5th, I'll down-shift to 3rd (which will put me at about 2k rpms) when coming to a stop light or sign; cause shifting down to 4th will do virtually nothing to slow the vehicle down

I should stop doing this?

EDIT: I stopped being lazy and read some of page 2... seems like it's fairly agreed this is false info

 

I got a new Kenworth field service truck with an Eaton 10 speed last year. My coworker who used to be an owner/operator taught me to double-clutch on EVERY upshift and downshift because that's how his dad taught him. Once when I was out on a job with a different coworker, he wanted to show me how to shift without using the clutch on the drive back to the shop. On some speeds it wouldn't shift into the next gear without grinding, on others it wouldn't come out of gear at all unless he used the clutch. He said it was because my transmission wasn't "broken in" yet. I made him pull over ASAP, and the moral of the story is I will NEVER shift without the clutch on any manual transmission, commercial or automotive. Manual transmissions are extremely reliable when used as intended. Why push your luck?

 

Skipping gears is only bad if you don't double clutch. Either that or push the clutch in and wait about 2 seconds for the input shaft to slow down to road speed.

The "syncros don't line up" comment is wrong though, not even sure what that's supposed to mean.

 

Are you saying you should double clutch? Cause that's the fastest way to wear a clutch out. These aren't freightliners.

 

A new transmission does have some resistance in it but I've noticed that rebuilding the shifter platform will cause it to seem tight. Obviously a new truck will have a new platform but its probably not the transmission. People who live in cold climates probably notice it more. I lube new shift platforms with engine oil for the first year, then put grease in them when they are broken in.