2012 v6 at DCSB engine knocking @ 1500 rpm

The truck is supposed to run on 87 as stated in the manual. It shouldn't need 91 or 93 and is a design flaw if there are this many problems.

 

The 4.0 is a noisy little beast. It'll knock and raise hell, but at the end of the day it'll pull what you want and get you back home. I run higher octane gas and it seems to help with the detonation. Regardless tho, its the "taco tick."

 

X2. May be noisy but I haven't had a single issue. I run 91 and after the exhaust and intake I put on I hardly even hear the tick anymore!

 

All 87 octane gas across the country can't be "cheap gas" and we're all not rich enough to afford 93. Why doesn't Toyota have the balls to face up to this issue and stop being such a pussy, it ain't no "Taco Tick".

 

Do you really want me to post pics of my Frontier on a Tacoma website? That's like bringing home pictures of my girlfriend to show my wife. Ill post a few pics. Have the frontier about 24 hours. I know some people are loyal Toyota owners. Others loyal to Nissan. I am neither. I just want a truck that will continue to give me good service after I'm done paying it off. I just saw problems on the horizon with the Tacoma. I didn't want to tie up $30k in a vehicle that has a motor issue with 10k miles on it. That being said. My first impressions about the frontier... There is a reason that you can get one with more options than the Tacoma for $4k-$5k less. Nissan cuts corners with a cheap very plastic dated interior. I still find it comfortable, roomy and functional. A dash mat and a good steering wheel cover will do it justice. My biggest gripe is the armrest. It is small ,does not hold much and its placed to far back making it a little awkward to lean on. The back seat seems a little more roomy but that may be because the front seats don't go back as far as the tacos. I'm 6'2" and its not as issue. Definitely worth a test ride. The engine is smooth fairly quiet and power full. The Tacoma gives a less bumpy ride as well. The frontier is not terrible but I do notice the difference. If Toyota will not address the issue I think its a good alternative. I'll post a pic when I take a few....

 

I totally agree with that. I have no issue with my I4, but if i had V6 that knocked with 87, and I know if I run 91 or 93 the knocking stops, I sure as hell would stop running 87.

 

I'm running 91 (highest available in CA), still pings like a mother. This morning I noted I was down to half a tank of Chevron 91, so I added 3.5 gallons of Sunoco 100 pump gas (it's a rarity here, only 1 station in my area carries it) again (last time I was clearing out a 'test tank' of Chevron 87).

Maybe a completely full tank of 100 would stop it, but that would come to about $160 per fill. NFW.

Still pings. *shrug*

 

I will continue to use 87 until the engine blows, then I'll make use of the Platinum Warranty Toyota gave me for what they called "normal" (pinging).

 

Well, I've been putting 91 in it since the problem popped up. Tomorrow it's going over Donner Pass (7000+ feet), then on to Lovelock, NV, then out into the Nevada desert (at least I hope it makes it!).

The ping will stop or greatly lessen, since the truck will spend Thursday - Monday at 3800-4000 feet. Lesser intake charge = lower cylinder pressures. It'll see everything from 32F nights to 80F days and plenty of dust.

If it wasn't for the fact that there will be at least 2 other trucks going (2000 Tacoma and some newer Dodge), I would have had to call it off. Don't trust the truck alone, any more.

Arbitration papers mailed in this morning, we'll see what happens in 40 days or so. Honestly, I just want it fixed. I don't want to extort anything out of Toyota, nor do I expect them to go "above and beyond". Stand behind your shit, fix it, and we can all move on. If they can't fix it, fine - swap me the same truck with a 6 speed MT, since those seem immune to the problem (unless you, the *driver* pick the wrong gear - that's on the driver then).

 

Toyota *gave* you an extended warranty? How the hell did you swing that?

Were a ball gag, KY jelly, and a 'promise it'll be over soon' involved? How deep were the teeth marks you left in the pillow?

 

Arbitration.

 

You ask for the warranty or did Toyota offer it in place of you asking for their souls, first born daughters, and the keys to the underground passages at Disneyland?

 

They offered it. Maybe if you're a good boy they'll offer it to you too!

 

Those extended warranties are a rip-off (unless they are free, but they are still a huge hassle to deal with if you ever have to use it).

Seriously, though -- these engines just plain run better and more efficiently on higher octane and the cost is practically a wash. I have a 25 mile commute each way, and the cost difference for me is about $10 per month. Even over the life of the vehicle, that difference isn't worth my time to fight over, if mine actually had the ping problem and I was inclined to be argumentative.

You've got all these sources on the internet that say, "if it runs fine on 87, there is no benefit from running higher octane." That really depends on how you look at it, and I think that statement is hogwash. Just about every more recent vehicle I have owned (since fuel injection became standard) has run better on Super even if it didn't ping on Regular. So I always use Super, even in my carbureted '77 Celica.

 

I'm still waiting for some one to show us damage from a 4L engine that pings.

 

Believe me, given what I now understand about the 1GR-FE internals, VVT-i and the variable overlap Toyota uses in place of EGR, *IF* 91 octane would stop the ping, I would go away quite content. I am fortunate enough to have a good job, decent pay, and I can fork over the extra $50 a month it would cost to use 91 without it hurting one bit.

But 91 (or 93) doesn't fix it for everyone.

I had an extended warranty (Toyota VSA) on my '04 Tacoma. It was never a hassle to use. Also had one for the wife's '04 Matrix, and it was never a hassle to use. That one paid for itself - water pump went bad, radiator sprung a leak, serpentine tensioner ground itself into oblivion, plus a bunch of nit-picky crap for the wife (interior trim/rattles/weatherstripping/wind noise stuff).

Course that was before Toyota ass-rammed us and cut off out-of-state sales of their VSAs.

Oh well.

 

I don't want to digress into warranty discussions here, glad somebody had a decent experience.

Anyway, you state that higher octane does not fix it for everyone. There are lots of folks on here with first-hand experience, why don't you start a poll? I just don't think the pinging problem is that widespread or indicates a problem with the 1GR in general. They use this base engine design in several models and it even crosses over to Lexus models, although the Tacoma 1GR-FE is probably the most archaic version (which is precisely why they use it in the Tacoma, using established, reliable engines in the model where reliability is expected).

I am not doubting that some individual experiences are different and worse than others. Just like your warranty experience was good, mine have not been that way. I made the decision to not buy another warranty based on my experiences, and I respect your decision to not buy another vehicle with a 1GR-FE based on your experience. The few experiences with pinging shared on this thread do not prove that the engine or its management system is flawed any more than my experiences prove that extended warranties are crap. It just proves that your experience was bad.

Sorry you're having trouble. This community is here to help those with questions or trouble. A poll on this forum could actually be good ammunition to prove that YOUR truck does not act like a normal Tacoma. A lot easier to sell than ALL Tacomas are flawed.

 

Is not like a tank of premium costs $50 more than regular, is at most maybe $3 or $4 more. And like I said earlier, Toyota did at one time include a suggestion in the manual to use premium.

 

I did set up a poll, sort of. Just not on this forum.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/L7XZ8QP

That way I can share it among other forums (work has been busy, haven't posted it on T4R, FJC and TN, yet). If you do a basic search on any of the major Toyota forums, this issue keeps popping up in 1GR-FE motors. Sometimes it's an issue unrelated to fuel/spark management, other times it is. One dealership showing me nearly 30 complaints in the past year (unique, not repeat visits) is pretty indicative of something being amiss. If you go deeper, you find the problem pops up in variants of the 1GR-FE (I mentioned this a few times in this thread, a ways back). The RAV4's V6, the 2GR-FE, is known in at least some instances to exhibit the problem.

But let's say that this is not indicative of a true design or production defect. I'll grant you that. So what's the cause? I don't know. I'll guess you don't know. We've all tossed around theories and ideas, but no one knows anything, really. Who should know? I would imagine engine designers or software engineers (or some combination of the two) at Toyota.

I bet Toyota could figure this out with 80 hours of effort. I bet they don't give a shit. "We got their money, they can suck the high hard one."

And it's going to be hard to really get their attention until engines start detonating because of this, or they get sued. See, let's say the engines will last 100,000 miles or more with this condition. Great! But no one knows that. So you decide to sell the truck. You get lowballed all over the place because of the problem - a "known defect". You bought the truck, relying on Toyota to support it, at least during the warranty period. They're not supporting it.

I won't wander too deep into the weeds on contract and commercial law (something I deal with day in and day out), but you've got two basic issues here: breach of warranty (arguable) and breach of the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing (solid).

Can I prove there is an actual problem vs. "just an noise"? Yeah. Can I afford the time and effort to tear apart my near-new engine, and maybe a few others, to prove it? No. And Toyota knows this.

It sucks, but it's reality. I'm going to keep pushing for them to address the issue or at least plausibly explain it away. Nevermind lemon laws and consumer protection laws (most of which I detest). This is about screwing your customer in the ass and *that* doesn't sit well with me.

Off to pack.

 

The economy still sucks, some folks are on the edge. Some folks are using these trucks for work, not play. You're right about the change from recommending 91, to just saying "use 87". Issue here is the unknowns.

Did the engine management subroutines in the ECU (and possibly 5AT control routines) change after they dropped that? Have running hardware or software changes been made to try and squeeze out more efficiency OR to reduce emissions? EPA and CARB put Toyota between a rock and a hard place on those items. If so, you do what any good sysadmin does - you go back to the last known good version as your baseline, and re-work forward to figure out where you screwed up.