dealership thinks I'm a dumbass

My 2013 DCSB Prerunner has the drive line issue too... I noticed it when I test drove the brand spankin' new truck. It did it I was leaving the dealer's parking lot. I thought it might have been some traction control BS from romping on it in a turn. Little did I know after I signed for the truck and drove it off the lot, I noticed it in a strait line... Did some searching on TW and found it to be a common problem. I brought it up on the first scheduled maint. at the dealer. They test drove the truck, recognized it as a problem, and documented it. They told me they currently have no fixes for it... I will see if I can get them to do the leaf pack TSB next time I go in.
At least the dealer I go to acknowledges the truck's problems (among a few others I told them about).

 

Yeah, and why does the Canadian trucks automatically get the 4 leaf pack. That never made any sense to me.

 

My access cab 2013 trd offroad was not too bad, but it went away with the add-a-leaf.

My mothers 2011 double cab trd sport was terrible, it had a block in the back before i did the leaf, much better now.

My 2012 double cab trd offroad was somewhere between the two and when i was pulling a trailer it was extra bad.

All three trucks had the 2 leaf plus overload pack. Both the double cabs bottomed out on dips etc.

And there are probably more complaints than non complaints with that leaf pack.

 

Personally, I think he was lucky you didn't grab him by the neck and castrate him with the nearest blunt object. Cleaning the gene pool and all that. We really oughta bring back "needed killin'" as a legal defense.

 

Information from experience, and Devil's Advocate here:

For one thing, While yes, we have several hundred people here that complain about, and/or are concerned with the leaf pack issue, and the drive line vibration, there are several thousand people out there that do not complain about it, or perhaps even don't notice it because it is not very obvious on their truck. You have to realize that while we are a common group of our own on this, and other forums, we are still a minority of the total Tacoma/Hilux worldwide market. For them to release a TSB a problem has to be severe enough that corporate sees it as a problem, AND has had engineering come up with a fix. Sure, the 4 leaf pack fixes one of the problems, but have you thought that for SOME people, a 4 leaf pack is too stiff? So to build ALL of the trucks from the factory like this they would THEN start getting major complaints about the ride being too stiff. You can't please 100% of the people all the time. So you try to keep the MAJORITY happy....and for the minority that this is a problem, they have a TSB for the stiffer leaf pack. Drive line vibration issues are the same thing. Some people it bothers, others it does not. I have a customer who just bought a 2009 Tacoma and I can feel the vibration when I drive it for his other complaint, but he said he doesn't really notice it. When I drive it I can get the axle wrap and drive line bump to occur. When he drives it, because he drives differently, it never occurs. Again, Toyota can't make every single driver happy because everyone drives differently, and not everyone has problems. They fix what they can because it is more cost efficient and receives overall better customer satisfaction.

That being said you also have to remember that the Toyota dealerships you go to are not owned by Toyota. They are owned by a person, or group of people, and simply have a Toyota franchise license. So if they argue with you or are not doing what is needed, you simply ask to speak to the manager, or owner, or perhaps take it to a different dealership if possible. If not, then you call corporate and get them involved. Don't blame Toyota for a privately owned dealership having a dick for a service writer, or shop foreman. Just go over their head. Everyone has a boss at some point.

 

Service manager is an asshole... good for you to call a spade a spade. I've worked in retail and I would have never tried to gloss over your problem- it's just bad form. In retail, if the customer has a problem it's always legitimate, weather it is or not! I don't care if you came in complaining that your windshield glass is too clear, I'd tell you that you are right, I will talk to Toyota about this very important problem! I likely behind your back would laugh uncontrollably, then I'd come back to you with a lie saying Toyota can't help you, but I can suggest a rubbing compound to help make that glass less clear. Customer is always right stuff.

FWIW, my '13 AC rides smooth as butter. There is no way driveline vibration should ever, in any way shape or form be called normal. Especially on a new truck with no modifications. Make them fix the problem or buy your truck back! Simple as that!

 

You wouldn't happen to have a writeup or pictures of this process would you? I'm sure if I was under my truck I would be able to visualze it, but sitting at my desk here at work not so much. Any specific type of silicone used? And by pump gun I assume you mean one of thesecaulk gun) :

 

Good point really. except that even if they are leaving the softer springs to please some or even majority of people. Many of those people may not even know that the vibration shouldn't occour. But i bet engineers at Toyota know it shouldn't be happening. They can have a better leaf pack that is still just as soft but does not axel wrap as bad as the one they are using. The dealer service thing is not directly Toyota, like you said.. Thats a dealer issue that sure tends to be pretty common. But the fact that Toyota has not changed the pack, i wouldn't attribute to trying to please the majority as much as its easier to not address a problem that they dont HAVE to, and they would rather "fix" the problem for the big complaints.

The squeekiest wheel gets the grease.

And they have changed the pack in the non offroad trucks from what i understand.

 

A lot of us are having these same problems; but there are some on this forum, that refuse to think there are any faults at all with the second generation trucks.

Sometimes, you have to wonder, if this is the first truck, that second group of people ever owned.

Speaking of the spring TSB issue: There was one idiot on on this forum that posted; his Tacoma was just fine with a heavy load. That "heavy load" was his lawn mower. Just makes you wonder. Get a life!

 

The thing is, not EVERY truck has the vibration, or the axle wrap condition when someone is driving, since we all drive differently. But I would have to disagree with you. Part of what makes a softer, more comfortable suspension is a softer leaf pack. Of course this makes for more risk of axle wrap and vibration. So you stiffen it up to reduce the wrap and vibration, and the ride becomes harsher. You can't always have both. Some people like the softer ride. It is a give-and-get kind of thing. We are unfortunately a minority when you consider the 750,000 or more Tacoma trucks built every year. Even if we had 100,000 total members in a dozen forums, we would still be a minority.

I mean hey, I agree with you, I don't like the drive line vibration. I have a full leaf pack lift kit now, so no axle wrap and no vibration (Yes, I am a 1st gen, but even those had some axle wrap issues at times) But you know what, I DON'T like the stiffer ride. But I accept is as part of having a lift, and a stronger suspension.

 

haha, yea. I have owned, and still own numerous old toyota pickups and none of them have ever had some of the issues that people call normal.

I have had broken springs, and driveline vibes etc etc in old trucks but never from the factory issues.

I have driven many newer american made cars and trucks with issues that are the same, so maybe most people really do think that its "normal" do have shudders and vibrations and saggy junk springs etc.

I have seen quite a few people say heavy load etc, not really on the forum but in real life.. Most of them, at least the ones im talking about are reffering to something that is probably less than half of what the rated payload is and thier trucks are basically maxxed out.

I have had the home depot guy try to tell me i had to make a second trip because the 800 lbs of crap was going to be too much for me to haul safely and i really wonder what people think trucks are for.

 

No, not every truck does, and yes im sure the driver has a large part in the amount that occours.

But leaf packs dont have to be stiffer in order to resist wrapping.
a leaf pack that has 2 leafs and a pack with 4 leafs, that have a matching overall spring rate the 4 leaf pack is likely to have less axel wrap. but the 4 leaf pack is going to cost more to produce. There does not have to be any more arch or stiffness. Softer does not equate to less leaves directly.

They could add a torque link like they did on front axels 79-85.. not that i would really think thats the best solution but its not a axel wrap or harsh ride ultimatum.

Leaf springs have been around forever, and there isnt just two good categories out there harsh & controlled/plush & loosy goosy

Toyota simply could have done better on the rear springs in the second gen Taco.

 

Personally I think yes, a link would solve the axle wrap, I would love to see the rear go to a 4 link with coil springs.

I have to again respectfully disagree with you on the leaf packs though. If you have 2 leaves, and add one or two more, you WILL increase the stiffness. You can't avoid that unless you change the spring rate of the leaves. And if you do that, you are back where you started from. If it physically impossible to add leaves without increasing stiffness without changing spring rate of the leaves.

 

Toyota dropped the ball on the driveshaft angles/design. They should have used the same setup they had on the 1st gens. My fix was a 1-piece... im far from stock though

 

Right, thats what im saying

2 leaf pack vs 4 leaf pack with the same overall spring rate (meaning the 4 leaves would half 1/2 the rate each of the 2 leaves for the same total.

Thats what i mean exactly, change the whole thing.. it would cost more to produce, but in the grand scheme of the mess not much.

 

my 2005 dblcab lwb 4x4 had it from day 1. actually got better after a Toytec 3" with AAL and shimming the rear. noticed it sometimes but not at every takeoff, added a fiberglass cap and shudder is gone. LT275/70/17 with Rancho MT7400 shocks. i think it is hit or miss with 2 piece driveshaft which is causing the problem. same problem over 8 years out of Tacomas, so it must be normal. personally i do not like the staggered shocks in the rear, newer American trucks have gotten away from this.

 

i've never called anyone in the service side an asshole before. haha.

personally, i would have told the service manager..fine. then showed up and made him take you for test drives in a few other brand new tacomas off the lot.

i hate being wrong. i would have fought him, but with a plan. i bet he would have backed down..

 

Toyota has a TSB for the FJ drive shaft and they just replace it with one that is a little shorter. I dunno why they won't do something similar for the Tacoma's.