Satoshi help - epoxy resin

So I'm about to venture into this D.I.Y., but have 1 little question before I start filling in the lip...

WHAT, exactly, did the rest of you use to bond the fiberglass to the plastic ?

Fiberglass (F/G) resin, or some other kind of epoxy ?

I bought a basic F/G repair kit with f/g resin, hardener, & f/g mat. I also bought a strip of 4"x72" of f/g cloth...

Am I missing anything, besides the Bondo ?

* I have worked with F/G before, but not bonding it to plastic.

Ready for fiberglass & bondo !

 

Not sure if this helps, but I used this write up when I had my 2011. Different grill, but still using the resin and bondo. I'd like to do the same to my 2013.

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd-gen-tacomas/28831-my-satoshi-grill-write-up.html

 

sub'd

 

I used Bondo all purpose fiberglass resin. Got it at HD in the paint aisle (I'm pretty sure it was in the vicinity of the tapes). It's been three years and no issues with cracking, peeling paint or really anything.

 

Fiberglass does not bond well with ABS even with a liberal sanding.

An ABS cement or a plastic epoxy is a much better choice for adhesion.

 

I appreciate all comments/replies. And would particularly like to hear from previous Satoshi DIY'ers.

Thanks

 

Op I'd take Homertacos advice

 

Yeah, I think he's made 2 or 3 of them...

Maybe 4.

 

+1

When I made mine, I sanded with 60 to get all of the paint and chemicals off the surface. Followed up with 100 to smooth it a bit but still leave plenty of tooth. Wiped it down with thinner, then the next day laid on the glass.

I let it cure for a week, went back the next weekend to work on it and saw a small resin drip on the edge. Figured it would break right off, I flicked it, and it lifted about 1/4" of resin at the edge.
Tried to break that off cleanly and more lifted.

Short story, it took me 10 minutes or less to completely PEEL all of the glass and resin off of the frame in 2 pieces.

No way it would have lasted.

I went to the hobby shop and bought some Plastruct ABS sheet, then stopped by Home Depot and got a can of ABS plumbing cement.

THAT worked. Probably 30,000 miles and it hasn't cracked.

 

Fiberglass doesn't chemically bond to plastics, nor does bond. I would use plastic weld or plastic fillers

 

I didn't intend to start an internet battle, but...

It seems like some people say they've had success using F/G resin, but some say it won't work.

I want to do it right the 1st time, & not have to revisit this project 5-6yrs down the road.

I also figured an ABS cement type bonding agent would be best but wasn't sure how it'd react to the f/g cloth, or if normal resin would suffice.

How I'm forming the lip, I need as much "adhesion" as possible. There's not much of an edge to work with...

 

The 2012+ is definitely a unique situation and one that most with experience in building the Satoshi have not worked with.

I guess with enough mass, you can be successful with FG and resin for a while, but as you said, 5-6 years down the road....

You are correct that you need an ABS solvent to bond with ABS.
The problem is, solvent is not resin, and it would take someone with skills beyond mine to blend ABS solvent with grated ABS in the proper proportions and consistency to allow it to be used similarly to fiberglass resin to bond FG to ABS.

Everything that I read online when I was working on my Satoshi after the failure with glass said that the only way to go was:

1 - ABS solvent cement and ABS material
2 - Stock parts, with styrofoam components added, to make a male model to produce a female mold to make the final part from glass and resin.

None of the serious body guys would even touch glass and ABS on the same structure.



Homer has built at least one 2012+ Satoshi and is absolutely your best resource on this forum for that grille design.

If Homer tells you one thing and I tell you another, ignore me.
He's done it.

 

BTW, I am going to use an ABS-type cement or plastic epoxy...

Then fill/shape the visible part with body-filler, and reinforce the backside with more F/G cloth & cement/resin.

 

The thing about cement is it is not liquid ABS... it is a solvent that softens ABS and allows two pieces to be "welded" into one. Either ABS solvent or heat can accomplish the same task.
ABS cement is not a resin, and does not harden like a resin. If you impregnate glass cloth with ABS cement, you'll end up with a piece of glass stuck to a soft piece of ABS, and it'll take it a week to harden. The surface of the glass will probably remain sticky like uncured paint for months.


I guess... and this is just a guess....

If you lay on a coat of ABS cement, then embed a layer of fiberglass mat (not the weave, but the mat), it might give you a surface what would be receptive to conventional glass/resin laminations.

Catch-22...
Regular glass weave would allow the ABS to soak through, compromising the ability to bond with future resin layers.
Mat may not be porous enough to allow the ABS softened by the solvent to "soak in" and grip.

But it's an idea to experiment with.

Like I said, Homer did a '12 grille... when he gets back online tomorrow I'm sure he will be of some help.

 

Basically what everyone else said ^above^

I used plastic epoxy on the back side and it worked great. BUT I cut out the plastic to fill in the holes from the pieces I cut off, if that made sense. Then on the front I used some bondo, then some fine glaze bondo mix. Sand then re-sand and repeat until completely smooth. Primer, then black trim paint. Done.

The write ups on here are great.

 

There are a bunch of different processes that had been used to achieve these mods. Personally I prefer plastic welding over all of them.
When you take two pieces of ABS and melt them together there is no issue of adhesion failure.
Not everyone can deal with the toxic fumes that come along with doing things that way though.

 

As a guy who rides sport-bikes as well (cough, username, cough) , I've fixed a few sets of plastic fairings in my ~25yrs of riding...

Plastic welding isn't the most pleasant way of bonding ABS. I'll stick with the chemicals.

Thanks y'all !!!

 

listen to homer

 

I did... Returned the F/G kit & got this (& the body-filler).

 

its really hard to get an angle like your cardboard shows. the head light gets in the way