Capacitor bank vs dual battery ?

Found this the other day

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z3x_kYq3mHM&desktop_uri=/watch?v=z3x_kYq3mHM

If it doesn't work google
Replace your car battery with capacitors

And I was thinking
If capacitors are designed to act as a buffer for the main battery, soaking up huge spikes in amperage demands (I.e. competition audio systems) , wouldn't the perfect electrical system for us offroad types be a deep cycle main battery plus a nice 4-5 farad capacitor bank? I think this would handle a winch better than a dual battery as well If done right.

Seems like you can find these caps very cheap online & they're far lighter than a dual battery and far cheaper.

Opinions anyone?

 

I think that's a bad idea. Have you ever seen what happens to a capacitor when you exceed the current rating? Winches draw hundreds of amps which is far more than any "cheap" capacitor could handle. Let me know how it works out though

 

Haha just throwing ideas around. Not really sure who/ where to ask about these things

I figure regular electrical demand is fairly constant, aside from starting and winching, which happens in fairly short bursts. Is it even possible to run a deep cycle with a capacitor bank?
If so, it'd be the best of both extremes- able to dump huge amp loads in short bursts and recharge quickly and able to run for a long time and discharge completely without the weight of two big batteries. ??

 

Supercapacitors are being tested as possible replacements for start-stop car batteries. Stay tuned. Capacity is the issue. If you try it, you will need a minimum of 50 VDC caps due to the polyphase output of the vehicle's charging system.

 

Bump, here is the updated version:

http://youtu.be/GUXM1XuLUIs


Keep this conversation going

 

See! This is what I'm talking about!!!

Regular deep cells are good for their purpose- long, steady amp drains in moderate weather.
But
Cap banks have their place in an extreme environment where the amp draw is massive, but short in duration.
The regular car battery clearly failed in 20 degree weather there, but the cap bank had the juice to jump the starter motor over
Which is exactly what a winch motor does!
I just wonder how to cut the cap bank off after it discharges lower than the stored wattage of the deep cell main battery so if you cranked the winch for 90 seconds or more, it'll remove that circuit so it isn't included in the demand on the alternator (and slow down the winching actuation until it ALL charges back up with the alt.)

Lets get some like minds on this project & keep bouncing ideas around!
I'll have a winch soon & ill want to toy with this plan

 

I believe this bank of 6 caps ends up being something around 1050 amps. Given that the 2nd ten 1GR motor requires anywhere from 80-150 (was it?) cranking amps to start up the engine I could feasibly see this little pack giving the engine at least 8-13 tries before the battery pack would refuse to crank that engine over. I read something about hooking up a very small mobile solar panel to the bank to ensure that parasitic draw would be kept out of the equation and the pack would always have an adequate charge.

Given that caps have a very small amount of resistance I really don't see anything under 9.6 volts being all that much of a chore to the starter of our trucks given that caps hold an abundance of amperage available. Though maybe I am missing something here. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. I am seriously contemplating doing something like this, the only thing stopping me is the fact that I would need to see some schematics to see how it is hooked. I read somewhere that ultra cap balancer should be used but then again I am also reading that it is not necessary. There is a lot of conflicting info with that.

See here is some info that might negate the need for cap balancers:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Let...ractical-G/step7/Balancing-Your-Series-Banks/

By keeping the charging voltage at around 75%-85% of 15 volts which would make it normal operating voltage of a car/truck that would negate the need for balancing. HOWEVER, a car runs at 13.8-14V (in some instances I have even seen 14.4 volts) that puts us around 90-97% max capacity of the caps. So balancing may very well be possibly needed.

Then again, after watching that lasersaber guys videos where he did a voltage test between each set of caps. He measured them all within a perfectly tolerable range. So quite possibly the need to limit the charge on the caps to what has been stated in the page is not totally an acute measurement?

There is another option here which has been mentioned as I was doing some research on the matter. Up the bank to a 7 capacity run battery. By doing that it would up your voltage to 17.5V (7 x the rated 2.5V per cap measurement = 17.5V) then if you ran charging at a max of 80% (17.5 x .80 = 14 exactly) That would put you right where you need to be as far as balancing goes, and not have to worry about anything additional. Just thinking out loud here. Someone chime in with your thoughts

 

So I am going to pursue this and my external source of backup power will be 3 solar panels, much better then the cheapie made in china items and have a bit more power behind them made by Nature Power.



They are also much smaller profile then the ones made by Sunforce and Coleman. They are 12.5"x4x1 They tuck in perfectly behind the driver side rear window and on the sliding glass portion. They are so small they actually hide almost perfectly behind the passenger headrests without too much exposure and obstruction to your view I love it! One will go in front right on the center of the dash and they will all be secured with 3M stick on velcro and finally be hardwired to the new battery setup all in parallel. Very excited to set it up!

 

If you're local, I've got a couple of good solar panels from another project you can use. If this works, I think I'll use my big one on my roof rack but the two smaller ones should work.

So you're running the cap bank parallel with your main battery right?
Will you have it on a low voltage cutoff after its drained out by the winch? I demand tons of pics! And multimeter readings haha

 

A starter motor typically draws far less, even with a very cold engine, than a winch at any moderate load. I don't know much beyond what a capacitor is though.

 

Intriguing concept. As far as I know, the battery will store the power, but the capacitor, just holds a charge that dissipates with time. His solar panel solution is neat, but that's not as reliable as having a battery. As for the battery with a cap, or a cap bank for that matter, totally unnecessary unless you are exceeding the output of the battery. The capacitor will help "smooth out" the voltage, but when an instantaneous current draw drains the cap, the battery has to feed the cap. So in essence, that battery and charging system are still doing the work.

In conclusion, for instantaneous load/ high amp draw, the capacitor serves it's purpose well. For a winch, a high and steady load, doubling the capacity ( dual battery) would be better.

On a side note, if the voltage is dropping at the winch, due to resistance in the cables, a capacitor installed closer to the winch may help with that.

 

The whole point of this capacitor bank is because the winching load far exceeds the alternator power & sucks the battery down to a failure point if used too long- but agreed, if the capacitor bank didn't cut off & isolate itself from the circuit, it would just add to the draw from the alternator & battery.
& the solar panel In would be just to prevent the power leak inherent of capacitors when left sitting over time.

But this is gonna get really effing complicated when you wire in a little solar panel to a cap bank that is also fed by the battery & alternator, which only discharges TO the winch and only recharges once the main battery is above 13v to ensure it doesn't add to the load while winching/ during catastrophic failure.

I'm really interested in the progress on this though Id love to make it happen.
Though WAY more complex than a dual battery, I imagine it'd work GREAT on a setup with limited real estate / weight concerns, and work extremely well on heavy use where a battery couldn't keep up.

 

Well here is my thing. I am really tired of messing with the standard lead acid battery setup and doing something like this would be a beautiful alternative to it. My plan is to just ditch the stock battery entirely and just run the vehicle on the cap bank entirely. I have no winch and while I would love to have one, am in no dire hurry to get one. In all reality all I want to do is change the source of power and use the solar panels to keep the bank alive during off times. Now whether or not I should make it a hybrid like in the video or not by using a Lipo battery I do not know. I would obviously get one that has a PCM or PCB built into it. I do not know what kind I would need or where to get it though.

My truck is secondary now though. So usage for it is not super important because I have a work truck I take home.

 

Haha oh trust me there will be multimeter readings both for my peace of mind and yours! How big are your panels? Being where I want to leave them I would want them to be small enough to fit where I am wanting to put them.

 

They're likely way too big for ya. About 6"x 3 foot.
And I have one big one 2' x 18"

I don't go as far north as concord, but I get around Fremont & San Jose once a month or so depending on work.

I don't know about replacing the whole setup with a cap bank... Seems like a bad plan but keep this thread updated with whatever you do!
Maybe someday I could run the winch all day with the truck off. Haha

 

Hey'12
Seen this yet?
Upgrading the big 3 then this should be your first step

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=298108

 

I am not concerned about winching in the least bit right now. I picked up a set of 8 of these off eBay and they should be in on Thursday the 5th. What I'll probably do is isolate these from the vehicle until the key calls for power at the accessory and ignition position. So essentially once the truck is turned off, it is "dead" per se.

 

Be jealous!



More to come of that soon (Maybe)

I am as of right now 50% done with my setup. My goal is to make this a 100% remove/replace, plug and play drop in to fit the stock battery cables and stock tray with zero modification to what is already on the truck (other then the lead acid battery of course ). So far so good!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cmqwbZa6_w

 

You shall see in a couple of days