Toyota Owners are being asked about new engine possibilities

Agreed , but a pick up seems like the perfect place to use one

 

Thanks for making me smart in a way ... I can understand. Do you have any idea what the maintenance is like for the D/E hybrid? I like the idea of the dynamic breaking and wonder if it were developed why it wouldn't be better than regenerative breaking which seems cheaper to develop and deploy. Of course in our trucks we would need a storage device for the stored energy but having said that in the long run I wonder if regenerative energy couldn't be used if fuel (diesel/gas) got movement started and by magic (computer technology) would switch to electric. Or am I barking at the moon as hydrogen would be cheaper and easier to employ?

Again thank you for explaining this in a way an old guy can understand. (I'm 61)

 

Well, I think one thing you have to understand that rich91710 didnt mention is that the diesel in a locomotive also puts zero power to the wheels. Essentially the diesel just powers a generator. The Chevrolet volt works on this principle. It gives you all the advantages of electrics, with great fuel economy. The electric motor or motors drive the vehicle and all it's accessories. This eliminates the need for a large heavy battery like a typical hybrid or pure electric. Imagine running your truck with the fuel economy of a household generator. The problem is too many people hear hybrid and think "Prius". If you do a little research the electric car has actually been around longer than gas cars.

As far as Hydrogen is concerned, it's a great technology, but it's so new and expensive that it's not feasible at this point in time. As time goes the costs will drop and make it a more viable replacement. It's just going to take time.

I think Jay Leno said it best when he said, "I love the prius. The more people that by electrics and hybrids, the more gas there will be for gear heads like me."

 

The Chevy Volt has a large battery. It's a plug in range extended hybrid electric vehicle. You're supposed to plug it in and charge it and the engine is there when you need to drive long distances. The pure electric mode is for commuting back and forth to work. It's a great design, but pricey and I can't trust GM anymore. I think it's $40,000 before rebates from the broke government.

Jay Leno owns electric cars, including the Volt. He just bought the new McLaren P1 hybrid too. He was probably joking when he said it. He has a wind generator on his "garage" too. He's not a purist of any kind really.

 

Again thanx! If I keep on this site long enough I may get to be so smart I can spell gas and with a little help maybe diesel. (Your post added to the making me smart challenge)

 

But the battery is not required for the vehicle to function.

Why would he have to be joking? I would love to own an electric car to commute to work, and I would love for all the people who dont care about cars as anything but transportation to do the same. Gasoline and oil are both nonrenewable resources. Why not have everyone drive electric, or use electric mass transit. Then what oil and gas is left can be used by those of us that want to preserve the hot rods, and who still enjoy road trips. Thats why I would wholeheartedly support D/E hybrid. It's a stepping stone between gas vehicles and full electric, or hydrogen. I say let the hippies drive their econo box, I'll take the gas they dont want.

What makes you a purist by comparison?

 

I'm not a purist at all. I like more than a few different car types and styles. Jay Leno's tastes seem even more diverse than my tastes, if you watch his Youtube shows.

I like the new BMW 328i style of hybrids for the Tacoma's next engine. It's just a large lead acid battery and a huge alternator. The alternator is only engaged when you're not trying to accelerate and the battery isn't full. That and more electric accessories would save a little gas. Plus you're already set for big stereo, tow package, off road lights, etc. A true hybrid isn't quite right for the Tacoma yet. The transmission and battery would be my concerns. I can't imagine many people would want a Prius CVT transmission and motor in a Tacoma...

 

Regenerative braking is the next level.
Dynamic braking simply produces heat. In a passenger car, it would only provide a benefit in reduced pad and rotor wear (and I guess auxiliary heat in cold climates)

With regenerative braking, the wasted energy is pushed back into the batteries, rather than wasted as heat.

And speaking of heat, environmental controls are energy-hungry and not terribly efficient in a purely electric vehicle.
Your options for heating are either very high current grids, or thermoelectric devices.
The problem with thermoelectric devices is they get hot on one side and cold on another. They simply "move" the heat.
Now, getting the heat from the hot side to the passengers is easy... stick a fan over a heat sink and it's good to go.
Problem is adding heat to the "cold" side in a cold environment. The cold side is going to ice over and there is not going to be an easy way to get heat into it (that it can then move into the cabin).

Likewise for cooling... either a conventional compressor arrangement driven by an electric motor... or again, a thermoelectric device.... and now you have the problem of trying to pull the excess heat away from the hot side.

I'm not sure that it will ever be a viable replacement.
Efficiency, it is far, far worse than ethanol.
It takes a couple of orders of magnitude more energy to produce hydrogen than you can recover from it, and due to the laws of physics, that is never going to change. I think the current market price comparing cost vs efficiency is comparable to gasoline costing $50/gallon. The city I work for had a hydrogen bus, and installed a hydrogen station at the Public Works yard.
They never actually used the bus on a route, and after having it for a couple of years, I saw it in the back of the yard with the vehicles being sent to auction (assuming the lease was over).
They do have a few hydrogen cars in the pool, so the station was not a complete waste, and like our CNG station, residents can get an account and use it.

There is one primary advantage to hydrogen and pure electric or plug-in hybrid technology. With conventional vehicles and hybrids, you have to carry your fuel with you, and the by products of combustion are also "following" you down the road.

A pure electric, plug-in hybrid, or hydrogen vehicle allows you some level of control over what fuel is used to power your vehicle, and also where the pollution will be... or if any pollution if your electric company provides zero-emission renewable options.

Using wind, solar, tidal, and other "free" (not exactly free, there's a very high startup cost and maintenance) sources, that minimizes the disparity between the energy required to produce a "fuel" vs the power received from it.

Little help... it's a proper noun, so it is always capitalized
Rudolph Diesel

 

When you guys talk about a diesel hybrid are you talking about something that is basically a Prius setup but with diesel instead of gas? Or are you referring to a system like a mega-ton dump truck where a diesel 'generator' powers an electric motor?

 

I'd be happy with a Diesel version of the Prius drivetrain.

 

Me too , with a huge KERS element

 

Okay so it looks like hydrogen is out but it now makes me wonder what the future holds for algae growth with conversion to biodiesel. I think if applied to or with electric magic it might provide the "Little Help" (LMAO) to send the mpg soaring. Your thoughts?

 

As a former owner of diesel F-250's for the past 12 years before converting back to a Tacoma 3 months ago, I would definitely be interested in a Toyota diesel. There are additional maintenance cost associated with diesels, but worth it as far as I was concerned. I owned several Tacomas from 1983 to 2001 so the change back to Toyota was a no brainer. Hurry up Toyota!

 

I think that is a good "shovel ready" short term solution to pair with gasoline and conventional Diesel while more efficient and economical renewable electric solutions are developed.

Nuclear is a good "shovel ready" mid-term solution... estimates are that we have only about 300 years of uranium available in accessible locations.

We're in pretty good shape, with or without petroleum, for a few more generations.

 

I'm not sure where you get your information, but it appears you are either stating opinion as fact, or have very bad information.
There are many ways gather or generate hydrogen, and only a few are cost prohibitive. Dissociating hydrogen from water using electricity is very expensive.
Oxidizing hydrogen is very efficient, with very little un-oxidized hydrogen as exhaust in a steady state process. All processes become more inefficient when you start cycling the rate, which is why highway mileage (near steady state) is higher.
Using hydrogen as fuel has both a tank of hydrogen, and the exhaust follow you as well, which is water, air, and a small amount of unused hydrogen.
The problem is the handling, storage, and transport of the fuel. The gasoline industry is fine with liquids that have a flashpoint above room temperature. Hydrogen expands roughly 700 times it's volume when going from a liquid to a gas and absorbs a tremendous amount of energy in the process.

 

Can any of these other methods produce the huge volumes that will be needed?

And as I stated, it's simply a matter of us not being there YET. We will get to the point where we have economical and efficient energy that can be used without guilt to produce hydrogen fuels.

I agree completely.
Likewise with the fiasco of finding a "friendly" refrigerant for our AC systems when Propane works wonderfully. People cite concerns over Propane's flammability while driving a vehicle with 20 gallons of explosive fuel... simple fact is, DuPont can't profit from Propane.

 

The only things I care about are reliability and fuel economy. I could care less if it comes in a diesel or gas engine. I don't understand why our small trucks keep getting bigger and bigger and our mpgs keep getting lower and lower yet technology is supposedly advancing? in the 80's you could get a small diesel truck that would get 30+ mpg and VW had a little truck built on a car frame that would get 40+ mpg! What happened? Why are we going backwards here?

Just give me a little truck that gets excellent MPGs and won't leave me stranded in the middle of nowhere. By excellent MPGs I mean at least 27 mpgs in a double cab prerunner, 30+ would be better.

 

My '94 with a 22RE got 18mpg and could barely get out of its own way.
Climbing a grade on the highway was 3rd or 4th pedal to the floor to maintain 65mph.

My '08 with a 2.7 and 4spd automatic gets 22-26mpg, and can accelerate from 45 to 90 climbing a decent grade from 500ft to 1000ft without dropping below 3rd.

 

Check out the torque on these puppies!!


http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2013...s-rolling-toward-production/?intcmp=obnetwork

 

Wheels motors have disadvantages too. No puddles, no mudding, no conventional brakes, high unsprung weight, rough ride, etc. Some of that torque has to be used for regenerative braking to offset the loss of conventional brakes. A lot of electric cars need a cooling system for the electric motors too. That complicates things a bit. I'm sure they're great for buses and trains though. If they can be made lighter and more durable, they might become common.